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Post by slb2 on Oct 14, 2006 5:44:32 GMT -5
I feel like I've brought up this subject before. I have a dear friend, she was a roommate in college and a part of my wedding party. She held my hand through one of my life's most wrenching events.
But now she's the one with trouble. For the past three years, she's been riding a roller coaster. I've finally concluded that she has bipolar disorder. Thing is, I've not seen her in the desperate, depressive state, only euphoric and reckless and illogical. I am listing what I found about it:
the depressive (low) phase symptoms may include:
Feeling very sad and hopeless Mental and physical slowing Lack of energy Finding it difficult to concentrate Losing interest in everyday activities Feeling of emptiness or worthlessness Feeling pessimistic about everything Feeling of serious self-doubt Difficulty sleeping, waking up early Thoughts of suicide The manic phase usually comes after two to four periods of depression and may include:
Feeling extremely happy, elated or euphoric Feeling full of energy Not feeling like sleeping Feeling full of great new ideas Feeling important Other people often see this differently and might think you are:
Speaking very quickly Changing the subject frequently Generally behaving in a strange, unusual and uninhibited way Appear unable to sit still or relax Making decisions without thinking things through Doing things or spending money recklessly If you are having a manic episode, you often can’t tell that anything is wrong. It can seem like other people are being critical, negative or unhelpful.
During both the manic and depressive periods of the illness you might also experience strange sensations such as seeing, hearing or smelling things that are not there (hallucinations). Or you might believe things that seem irrational to other people (delusions). This is called psychosis or a psychotic episode.
Is anyone else dealing with this, either themselves or someone they care about? My friend, "Diane," is undiagnosed, as far as I know. There have been times when she's acknowleged that she might have a problem, but she untreated.
It breaks my heart. She went bipolar shortly after my sister died, so it felt like losing her, too. I mean, if you've never dealt with it before, you just have no idea. I found her one day (she was married to Lars) naked in her home with Stephan. And she eventually let me in the house, but Stephan never got dressed! And she wore a thin flannel gown with nothing else.
I felt like crying right there. I did cry the whole trip home. Mental illness sucks. And the stigma people hold of it incites me to near-rage.
Sigh. Just something that's on my mind.
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Post by brutus on Oct 14, 2006 7:45:05 GMT -5
It's ok to cry. Mental illness does take a person away to a degree. The body is still there, but the person inside has changed. I have a cousin who was always such a sweet girl who also is bipolar. She does the screwiest things, often landing in jail for several months at a time. She's been committed to the State Hospital about three times. When she's out, she lives with the skankiest guys she can find. Often abused, misuses drugs, but seems to not want to find help. Her father died eight years ago, and it was after that the symptoms showed up. Her mother remarried and moved out of state. The mother and step father used to come back for several months in the summer, and my cousin was "normal". It's hard to watch this roller coaster. I believe that as long as she has someone around to be an anchor, she's ok. Left on her own, I don't thing she knows how to navigate. I dunno. I understand, slb, and it does hurt. ~B~
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Post by joew on Oct 14, 2006 10:03:32 GMT -5
I have a cousin who has been diagnosed as manic-depressive. I am not aware of anything he did that was as drastic as "Diane's" behavior. But he did have to be hospitalized once or twice. He would try to wean himself off his medication and that would lead to a relapse.
The good news is that he has been living successfully on his own for many years now. And the good news for everybody is that the problem can be controlled with medication. So if "Diane" or anyone else with bi-polar disorder gets the right medication, the prospects are very good.
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Post by jspnrvr on Oct 14, 2006 10:40:28 GMT -5
Ditto what joe said, sue. Maintaining the medication schedule, under supervision if necessary, is very important. The meds shouldn't be interrupted, either by design or accidently, (ice storms, hurricanes, pick the natural disaster of your choice.) Don't let stuff run out. The other issue here is one of self-medication with illegal drugs or alcohol. Sometimes known as "dual diagnosis", often a recovery program needs to be combined with the bi-polar treatment. Obviously I don't know your friend, but don't be afraid to turn over the substance abuse rock and shine a light, see what might be there. It can be a heartbreaker. Just do your best to be there for her .
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Post by Jane on Oct 14, 2006 12:56:41 GMT -5
Does she have a doctor? Medication can do wonders. Will she listen to you or is she beyond that? Support groups of others with similar problems can be helpful. There are also support groups for people who love people with mental illness.
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Post by carolion on Oct 14, 2006 22:46:59 GMT -5
In many ancient ways, developed by cultures hundreds and some thousands of years older than ours, it is understood that such imbalances are not personal illness; they belong to the whole tribe. The tribe gathers together to support and participate in the healing, which may go on for several days and nights of ceremony, ritual, storytelling, etc - to bring the tribe back in line with its path, and the suffering individual back into harmony with his tribe and the universe.
At this time the planet is undergoing several profound shifts, including a pole-shift. Earth's poles have shifted a number of times in its previous history, but this is the first one since humans have inhabited the planet.
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Post by slb2 on Oct 15, 2006 0:42:04 GMT -5
'lion, that sounds too much like Scientology to me. Here's where I'm coming from-- when I was pregnant with my oldest son in 1996, during my second trimester I began to have panic attacks, bizzare images of something hurting the baby and killing it while it was still in utero, and insomnia and hot flashes. It was horrible, as you can imagine. I went to church on Sundays and prayed like the dickens for relief from my mental illness. I also saw my midwife (CNM) who wasn't able to help me. Praying about it made it much worse. So much so that I quit doing that. Eventually, when I was only be able to sleep one or two hours a night by lying on the floor of my three year old's room and watching her sleep, I went to see a naturopathic physician. She prescribed homopathy, dietary change and a medincinal, herbal tea. The symptoms subsided except for the insomnia. I finally conquered that by sleeping on a friend's waterbed. Point being, imo, mental illness is a chemical imbalance of the brain. And many people suffer from them at one time or another. In fact, almost everyone experiences some degree of mental imbalance at least once in their life. When a person has a raging, flesh-eating infection in her body, tribes gathering to call out for healing might and probably will help, but I think we need to use our smart brains and treat the infection with appropriate, scientific medicine. Same with mental health. btw, when pregnant with my second son (after vowing to NEVER be pregnant again ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ) I started drinking that same concoction of tea as soon as my second trimester began. I still had a tinge of panic attacks, but nothing like the first time.
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Post by Tillie on Oct 15, 2006 1:40:55 GMT -5
Susan, Do you know what causes one human being to have a chemical inbalance and not another? And, why at differing stages of life.
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Post by brutus on Oct 15, 2006 15:47:52 GMT -5
Tillie, if I may.... Us folks are all built the same, yet so different. Take two ladies who're sisters. Same mother, same father, yet one may stay skinny as a rail her whole life, the other will battle weight. So many similarities, yet chemical differences inside are the culprit. Same goes for psychological issues. Some will be "out of balance" if you will, from infancy, others come later on. Some are "out of balance" to a smaller extent when younger, and age only serves to magnify the problem. There really is no way to predict who will, or when will they, go "out of balance". Sometimes it sneaks up so slowly that no one really notices until some startling even brings it into focus. I'm sure I haven't answered you totally, but I hope I've given you some idea. In short: It's a crap-shoot. ~B~
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Post by Gracie on Oct 15, 2006 21:14:54 GMT -5
I have bipolar disorder.
It was diagnosed when my baby was about 6 months old. I had thought I was simply totally and completely exhausted--you know, 39 and a new mother. But no. My mom was the one who realized something was really wrong with me. If I hadn't had the baby to care for, I would not have been able to get out of bed. And the entire time, I remember thinking that I should just walk out into the night and disappear, that Grizzy and BetsyO's would be so much better off without me....and I was absolutely certain that I was so worthless no one would even notice I was gone, nor would they miss me.
I was fortunate to have a very compassionate doctor, who worked me in IMMEDIATELY to the day's schedule when I called and said "I think there's something very wrong with me." He held my hands and wept with me and reassured me that I was not 'crazy' (even though, actually, I pretty much was) but only sick--and it could be fixed.
I started on serious meds, a few mg at a time until they found the right dose, and I still take a big dose twice a day. I went into intensive therapy, four days a week, and for the first time in my life, ever, I revealed some of the painful issues of my past, things that were not 'buried memories' at all--I could never forget what had been done to me and whose hands had done them--I had simply never allowed myself to speak of it to ANYone. But I decided that I wanted so badly to get well again that I would 'clean house' and empty everything out of the closet.
Meribeth told me later that she had rarely treated a patient who tried so hard to get well.
I still take my meds, I am careful about my diet (certain foods make a tremendous difference) and exercise and I get as much sunlight as I can, whether natural or artificial. I write, every day, an equally tremendous part of my successful management.
When you have this, you are either more manic or more depressive. I am more depressive, so when my meds are on track, they keep me ever so slightly manic, not at all a bad thing, it usually just means I have more energy and I'm more upbeat and cheerful, and have a bit more grab-Grizzy-and-jump-his-bones days. When they're not quite right, I find myself wanting to be ALONE. I don't want to see or speak to anyone. I also find that I will 'see' things, as bipolar usually manifests itself in either OCD or schizophrenia, which is my way: it never varies--I will come awake from a sound sleep, and 'see' Betsy standing beside my bed. Only she never is. Or I will 'see' something run across the floor, like a mouse...again, there never is. Then I know that I need to have my blood levels checked and meds adjusted.
It is a frightening disease and there is no cure, but it is manageable. It is considered a mental illness, which is sad, because there's a stigma attached to it; I have chosen to look at it the same as I would if I needed insulin or nitroglycerin: my body needs these chemicals because it doesn't produce the proper amounts it needs for optimum health. I NEVER decide that since I'm feeling good today I don't need my meds. I didn't cause this disease and it's not my fault I have it, but I owe it to myself and my loved ones to care for myself properly so they don't have any ill effects because of it. I have only to remember that hideous blackness that surrounded me all those months before it was apparent something was really wrong to know I NEVER want to feel that way again, and I am grateful that my daughter will never remember how I was that year.
I have rarely cried as hard as I did when I saw "A Beautiful Mind." Ron Howard GOT it. He got INSIDE that mind, and yes, it can be that frightening. It was too damn familiar to me, in some places.
But even now the best thing I hear is, when I feel safe enough to share this, someone will tell me they would never have guessed, that I don't 'seem' like a typical bipolar person. And that is the reason I DO tell: so many people think it's like they see in the movies--someone screaming, raging, throwing dishes and breaking windows and running off with total strangers. Sometimes we are simply very quiet, very empathetic, and feel things very deeply.
I would have to say, too, that I had been medicated for depression off and on since I was 21, so, nearly twenty years of putting a Band-Aid on a gaping wound. We had all thought that the issue was my having been so battered, and, later, my inability to have a child...which was why, when Betsy was given to us, I could not see what was wrong with me as a depression. Actually, it WAS the total exhaustion of caring for her that brought me to the breakdown, and in that sense she saved my life. I have to wonder how many more years I might have gone just feeling so bad so often and always blaming it on something else.
There have been people who tell me all I have to do is pray, and it will go away. People who tell me it's all in my head. People who tell me it's a crutch, an excuse, or the latest trendy diagnosis. But they don't live inside my head, and I can remember feeling suicidally depressed as young as 12.
It isn't easy, but I don't feel sorry for myself. I just try with everything in me to do the best I can each day, and to keep looking for the sunlight.
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Post by SeattleDan on Oct 15, 2006 21:24:34 GMT -5
Gracie, thank you so much for sharing your story. You are clearly a very brave woman.
I have a friend from my days when I worked at the Jesuit University here who wrote a wonderful memoir of his onset and his treatment for bipolarism. I'm sure he wont mind me telling you that he is a Jesuit himself, Fr. Patrick Howell, and his book is called "Reducing the Storm to a Whisper". The book, last I looked, is still available, and is very good.
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Post by Gracie on Oct 15, 2006 21:34:50 GMT -5
Gracie, thank you so much for sharing your story. You are clearly a very brave woman. I have a friend from my days when I worked at the Jesuit University here who wrote a wonderful memoir of his onset and his treatment for bipolarism. I'm sure he wont mind me telling you that he is a Jesuit himself, Fr. Patrick Howell, and his book is called "Reducing the Storm to a Whisper". The book, last I looked, is still available, and is very good. Thank you. I don't think of myself as brave, though. I WILL look for that book. In my therapy she had me using Dr. David Burns' "Feel Good Handbook" as one way of sort of re-programming my thinking (along with many other things that we worked on.) Two of the VERY best things I've ever found on this subject were Patty Duke's book "A Brilliant Madness" and Kay Jamison Redfield's "An Unquiet Mind." Both get completely inside this disease; Patty sharing how many of us have this and how some of our most creative writers, artists, musicians, and so on suffered with this. I can see how it would tie in.... And I think the term 'unquiet mind' is absolutely perfect: as with autism, there are too many things going on inside these brains sometimes.... Perhaps that is why when Grizzy and I were falling in love he melted me so when he told me one night that I was the most peaceful person he knew....and that being in my arms was his safest serenity. Imagine that.
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Post by brutus on Oct 15, 2006 21:51:48 GMT -5
![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png) Ohhh Gracie! I'd have never guessed. Really! You always seemed so bubbly and happy. Thank-you ever so much for sharing this deepest part of you. You have my deepest respect for being brave enough to come forth. R-E-S-P-E-C-T is what you deserve, R-E-S-P-E-C-T is what you will get. ~B~
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Post by doctork on Oct 15, 2006 21:59:26 GMT -5
Gracie, it does take courage to share a personal story like yours. And I believe it is very helpful to others when they see that you have the diagnosis, but are indeed "normal" (are any of us really normal?) when you take care of yourself and work with your doctor on the best medical regimen for you.
I've had a number of patients who are bipolar (or manic-depressive, as we used to call it). One of them told me that her problem was "lithium deficiency" and it responded well to lithium replacement. I couldn't argue with her, she had a good point I think your analogy is right on. There are brain chemistry derangements that manifest as mood disturbances - PET scans are now showing this - and respond to medications which correct the chemical imbalance.
We don't begin to understand all the complexities of the human mind.
may peace be with you, and your family.
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Post by joew on Oct 15, 2006 22:01:42 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing your story, Gracie. It helps me understand bi-polar disease a little better; and I'm sure knowing of your success will be a great encouragement for anyone who has the condition or is close to someone with it.
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Post by slb2 on Oct 15, 2006 23:46:55 GMT -5
Well, Gracie, remember my comment to you in the Chat Room? I said you seemed about ten years younger than you are because of your cheerful, whimsical voice? (not auditory, but written) So I see what you mean when you say in your self-disclosure that you are medicated to be slightly manic. Cheerful is good. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Have you had manic episodes? How or why was your illness diagnosed as bipolar rather than depressed alone? My friend, Diane, is always manic when I see her. Sometimes only slightly, but still, she's never deeply depressed. And because she think she feels good, despite having lost so much, she just won't confront her illness. It seems that being deeply depressed is more easily confronted. It's easier to hear from someone else that there's a problem, imo. About seven months after my sister died, I finally admitted to myself that not getting out of bed until noon, letting my three year old do whatever he wanted until then, was not normal. I finally went into the doctor for medication. But if I had been flying, and I definitely went through an almost manic state immediately after her death, I wouldn't have been as open to the idea that something was not right. Your post also makes me think of a friend of mine. She endured ten weeks of bedrest while pregnant with her twins (who are now ten and a half years old). She's been in post partum depression since. I'll say that I feel sympathetic for her, but I feel empathetic for her husband. It's hell, quite frankly, living with a depressed person. But maybe this friend and my spouse are inadequately medicated? I dunno. But it sucks. Clearly, though, Gracie, you and Grizzy have worked this out. A relative of mine has also endured suicidal depression, but though daily meds, she's worlds better. So it's not the end of the world, to have a mental illness. I guess I find it a heavy cross to bear, being the one who has to watch and support. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png)
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Post by Gracie on Oct 16, 2006 11:10:20 GMT -5
Cheerful IS good! Of course, I am also a damn fine actress, and I could be sitting here with tears rolling down my cheeks and you would never know it. NO, that hasn't happened here, but it has in the past, usually when someone else would be in worse shape than I was, and I would just suck it up and see what I could do to help. As I said, this has made me very empathetic, and I learned years ago that if I am helping take care of what hurts YOU I don't have the time to think about what is hurting ME. And that is who I am.
Yes, I have had manic episodes. When I have them, I feel like I am absolutely invincible, like I can do ANYthing. I have endless energy and that's when I turn out all the closets and reorganize everything, it's when I stay up all night writing, it's when I don't seem to need food or sleep and DO need lots of...ummm...sex. (I mean I am ravenous--not that anyone has ever complained about THIS part of mania....) I am extraordinarily witty and quick and clever (was a great help in my room op days).
See, the mania, for me, isn't scary. It's like a sunny summer day and I just feel so fine and so foxy and so free. Even so, I know it isn't 'real,' and I don't allow myself to tinker with the meds so I can continue to feel this way. That would be stupid. I've learned that when this strikes me, to enjoy it, ride it as long as it lasts and make the most of the energy/libido/whatever, because a crash will surely follow.
When the crash comes, as much as possible, I try to allow myself some extra quiet time; a hot bath instead of a fast shower, candles, maybe incense. NO alcohol. I rarely drink, anyway. Apparently it is another thing that makes me unusual in this: I have never 'self-medicated' in the attempt to feel better, as so many unfortunates have--and no, I'm not patting myself on the back, it's just that I was never, ever someone who got into drink or drugs. I don't care how many have said 'if you grew up in the '70's, you did drugs', because I didn't.) My biggest highs have always been about life and love and nature and good books.
With that being said, here's an interesting thing: a few weeks before my treatment began, I started having intense cravings for a few specific foods. Now, I'd had no appetite for months, and was eating just what I had to, but suddenly I wanted to eat nothing but fish and eggs. I mean, these cravings couldn't have been more intense if I'd been pregnant, so every day, for weeks and weeks I ate eggs for breakfast and a salad with tuna fish on it for lunch and grilled fish with brown rice and vegetables for dinner. I could NOT get enough; it was as if I were starving. After about two weeks of this I began wanting turkey, apples and red grapefruit, but not to the extent of the fish and eggs; still, these five foods were all I ate.
After I'd been in treatment for a while, because I am the kind of person I am, which is to say I want to KNOW what I'm dealing with, whatever it may be, I bought Dr. Andrew Weil's wonderful book "Eating Well for Optimum Health." It is about learning to eat for whatever health issues you have, and, as I am asthmatic and severely hypoglycemic, I was hoping to cross-reference the two and devise a sort of super-diet for myself. Then it occurred to me that perhaps there was something for bipolar disorder, I looked in the index, there was, I flipped to the page, and...what do you know...eat fish and eggs.
My body had been trying desperately to heal itself. Fish and eggs are rich in the chemicals my brain does not produce (so too, to a lesser extent, are turkey, apples and grapefruit.) I am very, very blessed that instead of finding my help in a bottle or a pill, my system craved its assistance in good healthy foods.
I was diagnosed as bipolar rather than depressed because except for the exhaustion that is new motherhood, I was happier than I'd ever been in my life. Grizzy and I had been together for 15 years, we lived in a wonderful house, we had this glorious new baby, I had work that I loved. There was no REASON for depression. We looked into the possibility of post-partum depression (yes, adoptive mothers can have it, too) but there were enough markers flagged to nail down the diagnosis. It made SENSE. It was as if a missing piece of the puzzle finally fell into place, and suddenly it was all so clear.
You said Diane never seems to be deeply depressed, but you may not be seeing the entire picture. She may be able, as I am, to mask it for the sake of others. When Grizzy and I separated in 2002 I went back to work at the bookstore where he and I had worked together a few years before; my mother said she knew at the time that inside I was one nonstop silent scream: but unless you looked directly INTO MY EYES, you would never have known. I would not allow you to know. My doctors monitored me more carefully than ever during this time, and there were times I'd think 'I can't go on, I can't go on, I can't DO this...'and get right back up and go on. It was important to me at the time that no one know how carefully I was balancing on the edge of the abyss. I wrote some of my best poetry at this time, and learned a lot about myself. When Grizzy left, he said it was because I was weak and helpless and dependent, and though there was a part of me that wanted to just curl up and die--losing EVERYthing in the blink of an eye--I knew that he was wrong, that I was none of those things.
And he came to see it, too, see my strength, my courage, my intelligence. (or so he said!)
I know exactly what you mean about feeling sorry for her husband, though, because...Jesus, this sounds like SUCH a soap opera....Grizzy was going into a depression as I was climbing up and out of mine. He had the classic midlife crisis, hating everything about his life, his work, etc......and thought that if he JUST GOT AWAY FROM ME he would be happy again. It was the perfect storm looking for a place to happen: a new baby, my bipolar battle, then his midlife...as I got stronger he got darker, and he hated me for it, and I couldn't help him. And he hated me more. And I realized how it must have been for him, living with me the way I'd been, even though I wasn't as bitter and hate-filled (that's just the difference in our natures; he has a deep cynical streak, and I am basically a happy person.)
Watching him during those months I knew exactly how he was feeling, but he didn't believe me, wouldn't seek help, or meds, or anything, and I couldn't force it. He thought that I thought everyone should take drugs just because I was. He hated me so much in those days that he let the house and the car be repossessed, and finally told me when there was less than a month to vacate the house.
And so we blew apart in the most spectacular manner. We lost a lot. Which is why our reconciliation was, and is, so miraculous to me. It came at a price, of course, as everything that is worth having does.
It has to be hell for you and my heart goes out to you, having been on both sides of depression. It's not easy to get better....and harder still to WANT to. I really wanted to, and I guess that makes the difference.
And Grizzy had no choice, if he wanted me. Lucky for me, and for him, and most of all for our BetsyO's, he wanted me. He likes to say now that 'that's not the most right I've ever been,' because he's learned a lot about himself, too, and knows so much more about what he has to do to stay healthy.
No, it isn't the end of the world having a mental illness, although it sure can be...some who just can't bear one more MINUTE of feeling that way. I will always have the battle within me, and I will never, ever give up the fight to win it.
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Post by slb2 on Oct 16, 2006 13:24:40 GMT -5
Gracie, this whole story/thread is inspirational. I'd like to share it with Diane, but worry that she'll hate me for suggesting she has this mental illness. It's not that I can't handle the hate, but I don't want to allienate her because I want to be able to help take care of her if she gets worse. I want her to be able to accept my help.
And that you and Grizzy got back together is even more wonderful than I'd first realized. I wish that could happen for Diane, but she still blames him for most of her troubles. sigh.
Thanks again for sharing, Gracie. See, the elephant has morphed into a meercat. Now if we can just catch the danged thing...
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Post by Gracie on Oct 16, 2006 13:41:45 GMT -5
Gracie, this whole story/thread is inspirational. I'd like to share it with Diane, but worry that she'll hate me for suggesting she has this mental illness. It's not that I can't handle the hate, but I don't want to allienate her because I want to be able to help take care of her if she gets worse. I want her to be able to accept my help. And that you and Grizzy got back together is even more wonderful than I'd first realized. I wish that could happen for Diane, but she still blames him for most of her troubles. sigh. Thanks again for sharing, Gracie. See, the elephant has morphed into a meercat. Now if we can just catch the danged thing... What a good friend you are. Go to Sean Astin's website, at http:www//LearnAboutBipolar.com which is a wonderful place, full of much information. His mother is Patty Duke. Among other things, he has a section for 'family and friends can help.' I felt much the way Patty did: relieved to KNOW what was wrong, glad to actually have the diagnosis because it meant we knew what to DO about it. I have seen many others though who resist every step of the way. I pray for all of you who love Diane that this won't be the case for her. By the way...don't give up, any of you, but hang tough if you can. Grizzy and I spiraled downward for about a year and he left in early 2002. It was not until I filed for divorce in 2004 that we even began to talk productively about all the ways we'd gone wrong and what we both regretted. And it was not until 2005, six weeks away from our final court date, that we broke through the stubbornness and ego and pride and said, no matter what I want this to work, I love you, I don't want to live without you. Maybe it will take that kind of time for Diane. I know, for us, it was just about as horrific as any alcoholic or junkie bottoming out. I wish we could have learned it before so much pain and loss, but we never have done things the easy way....
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Post by slb2 on Oct 16, 2006 14:35:52 GMT -5
What a good friend you are. But see, she held my hand when I was pregnant and placing my baby in an adoptive home. She never turned away from me. She was my good friend and now it's my turn.
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Post by Tillie on Oct 16, 2006 14:44:54 GMT -5
Gracie, Thank you for sharing your story with a happy ending. ________________________________________________
Often I wonder about people who we put to death in the electric chair, who are in prison, some of the homeless, etcetera. How does one really know if they are sane or mentally ill? Also, there are many others who are mentally ill and don't have health insurance in our country. Our laws and elected officials are different in each State of our United States of America and their policies for bad behavior vary.
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Post by Gracie on Oct 16, 2006 15:09:27 GMT -5
Slb2...I repeat...what a good friend you are. You ARE. She's been a good friend to you, and you haven't forgotten that. Sometimes people do, you know? Sometimes they do, even though you think they will always be there for you.
And...as the mother of a much wanted, enormously loved adopted child....thank you again for making such an incredibly painful, incredibly loving and courageous choice. I will never forget walking the journey with Lizz, and even the day we took Betsy home from the hospital, we were prepared for her to change her mind. I've gotten really angry at times when I've been told that I'm so 'brave' to adopt a child. Oh please! The bravery was all Lizz's....and so was the gift, and while I still feel undeserving, so too do I feel incredibly blessed. And lucky. And humbled.
I hope you have as much peace about this decision as it is possible.
I'm exalting you....just because. You are an incredible woman.
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Post by Gracie on Oct 16, 2006 15:13:10 GMT -5
Gracie, Thank you for sharing your story with a happy ending. ________________________________________________ Often I wonder about people who we put to death in the electric chair, who are in prison, some of the homeless, etcetera. How does one really know if they are sane or mentally ill? Also, there are many others who are mentally ill and don't have health insurance in our country. Our laws and elected officials are different in each State of our United States of America and their policies for bad behavior vary. Tillie, You're right to wonder about this. As I have said, in the beginning I thought I was simply exhausted. I can look back NOW at the journals I have kept all these years and can pinpoint exactly whenever I was in either a manic or depressive state. And it is frightening to see how far gone I was, at times....because I couldn't see it. And it's also true that much of the homeless 'epidemic' began when Reaganomics slashed fundings to state hospitals....and the mentally ill, many of whom had no family or money, were turned out into the streets. Thank you for what you said. I do have a happy ending...and I earned it. And I'll never take it for granted. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by carolion on Oct 16, 2006 15:22:26 GMT -5
What a truly beautiful thread this has turned out to be, now that I'm catching up a little. I'm loving this group in a "wildlife way" - that is, I feel something like a weeping willow hearing stories told among friends sitting by the little stream running past my roots. I wonder, don't you, how much of all the depressions we've carried (I did, too) have to do with our water calling out to us for clearing? It seems to work both ways....
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Post by Tillie on Oct 16, 2006 16:33:28 GMT -5
Gracie, I read with interest your post.
Carolion, I liked your description of a weeping willow tree. I like nature's wine, too.
Also re depression & suicide, I remember my brother took one psychology class at university. While he was taking the course, they were taught that if a person was suicidal and took a good pooh they wouldn't commit suicide. I'm not sure if the thinking of professional pysch people, or I, think that's true today - maybe for a sec or two right after a bathroom episode things feel bettah! _____________________________________________
Did President Clinton restore the funding back to state mental hospitals? Were the state hospitals well run before President Reagan became the Preident of the USA?
Any answers regarding our citizens in prison, some given the electic chair, who might be mentally ill. We have already found that some prisoners and people we put to death are not even gulity, but by lies, forgery, hearsay, misrepresentation, or partial evidence zapped to death or are sentenced to prison.
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Post by booklady on Oct 16, 2006 19:22:35 GMT -5
This is an incredibly interesting, informative, and most of all, inspiring thread. Gracie, slb, everyone who has shared personal stories, I am sure you have given a helping hand and loving hug to people who need to know the things you have shared.
I'm going to come back when I have more time, to study these posts and learn more. Thank you all so much.
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Post by Tillie on Oct 16, 2006 20:15:29 GMT -5
Booksie, You're most welcome!
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Post by Gracie on Oct 16, 2006 20:28:46 GMT -5
This is an incredibly interesting, informative, and most of all, inspiring thread. Gracie, slb, everyone who has shared personal stories, I am sure you have given a helping hand and loving hug to people who need to know the things you have shared. I'm going to come back when I have more time, to study these posts and learn more. Thank you all so much. Awwww, Booklady....would you believe I am sitting here listening to music and "Tangled Up in Blue" JUST began to play! How cosmic is that!! ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png)
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Post by booklady on Oct 16, 2006 20:46:14 GMT -5
Gracie, I think that MAY be my most favorite Dylan song, though it is awfully hard to choose.
He really should have married me, you know. There has been a mistake of cosmic proportions.
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Post by Gracie on Oct 16, 2006 20:53:17 GMT -5
I like so many of his masterpieces! I love "Shelter From the Storm"...and "Lay, Lady, Lay" just makes me melt. I mean MELT. And "My Back Pages" means more and more to me...because "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now." I loved the live version he did a few years back with his friends for the 30th anniversary bash: all those great voices singing those great lyrics...
Did you see the Scorsese documentary? It was so good I bought it the minute it hit the stores.
And did you read "Positively 4th Street?" Such a good book...all about Dylan, and Baez, and her sister Mimi and Richard Farina....
I think "Diamonds and Rust" is one of the best things Baez ever wrote...and you can still hear all that love beneath the pain.
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