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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 11, 2007 7:26:31 GMT -5
This is an interview with a passionatly intelligent woman (Human being). It steikes me as a an interview which very succinclty accentuates the phrase "Cultural differences" Compare her presense with US Celebreté. How is it that an East Indian actress, regardless of her excellent upbringing, would have such passionate forsight and the intelligent sense of responibility to transform her positioné Celebreté into a voice for responsible change. Why is it that, for instance, Jane Fonda an equally intelligent and passionate actress would be so demonized; to this day, for her rational insight. <A HREF="http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/the_interview.shtml">Shabana Azmi</A> |
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 11, 2007 7:29:13 GMT -5
Ah thats right this is a bracket sight! (spit)
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 11, 2007 7:32:19 GMT -5
I this a face and voice you'd love to have tea with or what.
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Post by mike on Feb 12, 2007 5:39:58 GMT -5
Roges, Hanoi Jane, the traitor bitch, insightful?
I think she's a very gifted actress, but it ends there, Pal.
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Post by juliastar on Feb 12, 2007 7:06:34 GMT -5
I mean this in a friendly, something for you to think about sense. You provide an example of Roge's point about demonization or worse, Mike, but you don't answer his why question.
Fonda was obviously right about a lot of what was senseless about the Vietnam conflict and right to point out that there were people on the other side of the fence. I think as far as our troops went, she should have focused on the good troops, bad orders concept and I think she went too far in posing with "enemy" troops. However, I think the reaction to her as a "traitor bitch" was/is over reaction and a deliberate twisting of the point she was trying to make. Despite our supposed modernity and liberation, other cultures do appreciate wise women more than our own. Why that slur -- would a man holding the same political view, doing the same act, get dubbed with a similar sexual slur? I don't think so. I've never heard you use the male equivalent, if there is one, in any context but humor.
Who are our female icons? Bimbos. (The Dallas Cheerleaders, Paris Hilton, Anna Nicole Smith) Complacent Make No Waves Wallflowers. (Laura Bush) Who is demonized? (Jane Fonda, Hilary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi)
Old Sourdough could cut and paste George Will on what is wrong with Democrats and everyone would be cool with that. I post something truly thought provoking and you howl like a banshee.
Maureen Dowd had an interesting column on Saturday about chick lit and why it is not acceptable. Why is this fluff stuff being steadily foisted upon us?
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Post by mike on Feb 12, 2007 7:23:07 GMT -5
I respect women, I honor women, I revere women... the strongest, smartest, be-all-to-end-all-most-powerful-thing-on-earth is a woman -- so say I.
I do not like what Jane Fonda did, and it has nothing to do with her being a woman.
Some times, a human is just a human, irregardless of their sex.
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 12, 2007 7:32:31 GMT -5
Have either of you listened to the interview? Teehee Blinkblink
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Post by juliastar on Feb 12, 2007 7:40:32 GMT -5
I clicked on the article and am generally familiar with her work.
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 12, 2007 7:41:06 GMT -5
Maybe I have misrepresented the content of the interview as militant by making reference to Fonda. It is not at all about militancy It is an example of a hiprocracy in our country ie. women are treated with more respect here than in other countries. That was after all one of gb's Bag of Premises for attacking Iraq.
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Post by juliastar on Feb 12, 2007 7:44:16 GMT -5
I respect women, I honor women, I revere women... the strongest, smartest, be-all-to-end-all-most-powerful-thing-on-earth is a woman -- so say I. I do not like what Jane Fonda did, and it has nothing to do with her being a woman. Some times, a human is just a human, irregardless of their sex. Specific example of a smart, empowered woman you truly respect and admire, please. And if a human is a human, then why use a female specific sexual slur in reacting to Jane Fonda? |
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Post by juliastar on Feb 12, 2007 7:49:46 GMT -5
Maybe I have misrepresented the content of the interview as militant by making reference to Fonda. It is not at all about militancy It is an example of a hiprocracy in our country ie. women are treated with more respect here than in other countries. That was after all one of gb's Bag of Premises for attacking Iraq. I got that which is why I wrote, "despite our supposed modernity and liberation, other cultures do appreciate wise women more than our own." God help any woman gb says he is going to "look out for." |
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 12, 2007 7:52:33 GMT -5
I won't argue the tactics of J Fonda. What I will say is that sometimes extreme situations require extreme measures. Some people grab for a gun and hope the hail of lead will hit the right person, others grab a microphone and pick the podium which causes the most pandemonium. Others Grab a quad latté in the morning and vicoden with a vodka chaser in the evening.
My regards to the Dixie Chicks.
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 12, 2007 7:55:10 GMT -5
Thats funny J* or maybe not.
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Post by brutus on Feb 12, 2007 8:48:50 GMT -5
And if a human is a human, then why use a female specific sexual slur in reacting to Jane Fonda? After reading through this thread, I see no reason not to use the female sexual slur. Had the celebrity's name been John Fonda, someone surely would have referred to him as "Traitor Assh*le". The supposed-slur merely shows the writer's strong emotion to what Fonda did. I'd have said the same damn thing! ~B~ |
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Post by juliastar on Feb 12, 2007 9:15:33 GMT -5
Traitor asshole is gender neutral and that is not the term being tossed about. As Rogue's has suggested, there is a reason Fonda's gender is disparaged in the context of the expression of a political opinion and the reason isn't equality, no matter how much traditional, religious, conservatives like gb want to toot their own horns about how great and enlightened things are in the west. He has single-handedly made things a lot worse for women and children in Iraq.
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Post by juliastar on Feb 12, 2007 9:21:47 GMT -5
And yes, rogues, if I were having a fantasy a-list dinner party, Ms. Azmi would be phenomenal company. Ms. Hillton? Pass. Ms. Spears? Pass. Even Hillary Clinton, no, thank-you.
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Post by slb2 on Feb 12, 2007 9:54:41 GMT -5
And if a human is a human, then why use a female specific sexual slur in reacting to Jane Fonda? After reading through this thread, I see no reason not to use the female sexual slur. Had the celebrity's name been John Fonda, someone surely would have referred to him as "Traitor Assh*le". The supposed-slur merely shows the writer's strong emotion to what Fonda did. I'd have said the same damn thing! ~B~ Hardly pointing fingers, but one reason to NOT use that term is because it is vague and disrespectful. What does it mean to call Jane F. a bitch? If she were birthing children indiscriminately to various men, then yeah, I can see how the term would fit. But that's not the issue here. So, why bring sexual terms into the discussion? slb2, who usually tries to bury her head about this stuff since her kids require too many brain cells as it is, but who's tender little heart went  to discover some of her beloved cyber-buds thought it acceptable to sexually slam this woman who holds ideas offensive to them. |
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Post by brutus on Feb 12, 2007 10:27:34 GMT -5
Allow me to retract my statement as Slb and J* your points are well taken. I apologize for any offense that my statement may have caused.
You must, however, realize that often in slang usage, the "B" word, ( and this does not mean ~B~ word) is often indiscriminately bandied about with no real intention of slamming any particular gender. Neither would the "A" word. In the context of how the word "bitch" was used here, it was merely, in my estimation, a term used to describe the writer's feelings about Ms. Fonda's activities, not her gender. I'm quite sure that the writer would have had similar disparaging remarks about the person had "she" been a "he".
In the same context, were I to have a difficult time with a female at a business place I frequent, I may have grumbled to someone else about that "bitch" at the counter at 7-11 who was so slow to attend to my purchase. Context, ladies, context!!!!!
Get my drift??
~B~
Allow me to further add the thought that, in light of Slb's definition of the word, Jane Fonda was rather indescriminate in her choice of have herself photographed with enemy soldiers. Seated atop their artillary surely seemed to be an effort to flaunt herself in this light.
~B~
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Post by slb2 on Feb 12, 2007 11:02:27 GMT -5
Yes, Brutus, I do see your point about context. Thank you for your generous apology. Truly, I feel better hearing you say what you said above.
I agree that many people do use the word bitch without acknowleged intent to disparage females. However, frankly, I sincerely question people who use the term and insist they didn't mean to slam all women. To me, it's not a broad brush term as Mike used it (?) earlier in this thread, but very specific. I don't experience that word as a general term.
There's a magazine by and for women titled, Bitch and I guess the writers are fine with that as well as the readers, but not me. I might evolve over time to accept that word as a generic, non-gendered slam. But until then, I find its indiscriminate use a poor choice and reflective of a general feeling of malaise toward women by the user.
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Post by mike on Feb 12, 2007 15:21:51 GMT -5
"Jane Fonda; American Traitor; Bitch"
This was a popular bumper sticker in the 70's; it's etched in history. Google it, you'll see that it's still in use today. It is attached to Jane Fonda for the rest of her life. It will probably be used in her obituary. It is uniquely hers and does not apply to anybody else.
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Post by juliastar on Feb 12, 2007 15:44:09 GMT -5
"Jane Fonda; American Traitor; Bitch" This was a popular bumper sticker in the 70's; it's etched in history. Google it, you'll see that it's still in use today. No, thanks. I like to think that I've moved on and don't need old bumper stickers to tell me what to think. There was a funny Cheney one I saw the other day. He is snarling out the side of his grumpy mouth saying: "DON'T ask me about my grandchildren." |
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2007 4:42:46 GMT -5
Jay, twist it, turn it... any way ya want it!
Time for a song.
How?
John Lennon
How can I go forward when I don't know which way I'm facing?
How can I go forward when I don't know which way to turn?
How can I go forward into something I'm not sure of?
Oh no, oh no
How can I have feeling when I don't know if it's a feeling?
How can I feel something if I just don't know how to feel?
How can I have feelings when my feelings have always been denied?
Oh no, oh no
You know life can be long
And you got to be so strong
And the world is so tough
Sometimes I feel I've had enough How can I give love when I don't know what it is I'm giving?
How can I give love when I just don't know how to give?
How can I give love when love is something I ain't never had?
Oh no, oh no
You know life can be long
You've got to be so strong
And the world she is tough
Sometimes I feel I've had enough
How can we go forward when we don't know which way we're facing?
How can we go forward when we don't know which way to turn?
How can we go forward into something we're not sure of?
Oh no, oh no
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 13, 2007 6:38:02 GMT -5
You guys suck for having turned the attention of this thread from a focus from an interview with a politician of note and reason to a childish argument over an offhand example. Please do not bring thiis adolescent subject up again. thankyou Teehee Blinkblink
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Post by rogesgallery on Feb 13, 2007 6:41:29 GMT -5
You can take my inaccurate wording as a indication of my discust.
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Post by Tillie on Feb 13, 2007 10:47:40 GMT -5
Well, Rog, I was going to post here re your original question and some of the posts. However, with your new ruling against free speech, I am banned from posting on this thread. In my opinion, this ruling of your's is a disgusting turn of events! Gigglegiggle, you sillie fella  (spit) |
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Post by mike on Feb 13, 2007 15:28:48 GMT -5
I used to try and keep things on track, but that got derailed. So, I'll just take myself outta here!
See you on the other side of the tracks -- the shadier, hazier, lazier side of the tracks; better known as Sin-City!
Mike
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Post by scotbrit on Feb 13, 2007 16:32:18 GMT -5
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Post by slb2 on Feb 13, 2007 20:19:24 GMT -5
I used to try and keep things on track, but that got derailed. So, I'll just take myself outta here! See you on the other side of the tracks -- the shadier, hazier, lazier side of the tracks; better known as Sin-City! Mike Sshhh, Mike, I thought that was our little secret hidding place.  |
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Post by brutus on Feb 13, 2007 20:49:12 GMT -5
I used to try and keep things on track, but that got derailed. So, I'll just take myself outta here! See you on the other side of the tracks -- the shadier, hazier, lazier side of the tracks; better known as Sin-City! Mike Sshhh, Mike, I thought that was our little secret hidding place. 
 ~B~ |
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Post by mike on Feb 14, 2007 4:46:15 GMT -5
I used to try and keep things on track, but that got derailed. So, I'll just take myself outta here! See you on the other side of the tracks -- the shadier, hazier, lazier side of the tracks; better known as Sin-City! Mike Please forgive me, and let me put things right... I'm not outta here as in "Here, the Prairiechatter", I just meant this thread, and even that was a joke. I appreciate roges sense of humor, and I was just having some fun by throwing it back at him. Heck, I can't leave this place... I love you guys! Next time I'll try to choose my words more carefully. Apologies for any misunderstandings. Love, Mike P.S. Hugs and kisses to Jay and Slb2 --- a hearty handshake to Brutus. |
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Dopey Member
to discover some of her beloved cyber-buds thought it acceptable to sexually slam this woman who holds ideas offensive to them.
~B~