g0llum
![](http://emoticons4u.com/dressed/bek038.gif) Bashful Member
Dwight K. Schrute Rules!
Posts: 18
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Post by g0llum on Sept 4, 2007 12:51:55 GMT -5
Okay, someone requested that we start a thread about getting published. I'm happy to help where I can, but I need to through some disclaimers out there...
1) I write for young adults, and actually that's what I prefer to read any more. I love the energy and sense of adventure -- and it keeps me feeling young! So our writing styles and passions might differ greatly.
2) I can tell you about the journey I took, but if you talked to 100 published authors, you're going to get 100 extremely different stories.
3) Advice from me might just be worth what you are going to pay for it (i.e. NOTHING)!
4) I love the business side of books as much as the art, so I'm not a "purist" per se. My theory is that you can write the greatest book in the world, but if nobody buys it, nobody will know how great it is.
5) On the other hand, I also firmly believe that you have to write about what your passionate about, because passion sells books.
Okay, now that we have that out of the way, I'll try and post some stuff that I've done, and we can get some further input from Dan (as a bookseller -- they make and break bestsellers anyway, and his word would weigh heavier than mine), and Escalus. I'm excited to hear about his journey as well!
So now that I got that disclaimer out of the way...
(p.s. You can email me with questions any time, since I might not get to these message boards as often as I would like -- jslewis@greygriffins.com).
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g0llum
![](http://emoticons4u.com/dressed/bek038.gif) Bashful Member
Dwight K. Schrute Rules!
Posts: 18
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Post by g0llum on Sept 4, 2007 12:59:19 GMT -5
Where to start: Writing a Killer Manuscript
For me, the place to start in the entire process was finishing a manuscript that I wasn't embarrassed to show someone. There are some GREAT books about writing, and there is one author in particular that I think writers (even as prolific and successful as Stephen King or JK Rowling) should read annually!
The books are written by an agent named Noah Lukeman. Why is that important? Your odds of getting published without an agent are just north of 0%. The problem with that is that I've heard it said that agents are more difficult to acquire than publishers.
So once you have a potential agent's eye, you have to keep it.
So here is my suggested reading list:
1) THE FIRST FIVE PAGES 2) THE PLOT THICKENS
These books are easy to read, informative, and bursting with all the information you would need to not only write a great book, but to avoid the pitfalls that all agents are looking to weed you out with. In their eyes, you are guilty until proven innocent. You definitely need to bring your "A" game -- because with agents, you don't get a second chance to make first impression!
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Post by gailkate on Sept 6, 2007 9:21:56 GMT -5
Now that I know what books to read maybe I'll drag out one of my dusty half-starts. I've got a million of 'em.
Danno, can you find used copies of these for all of us?
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Post by SeattleDan on Sept 6, 2007 14:01:53 GMT -5
1) THE FIRST FIVE PAGES 2) THE PLOT THICKENS
gail, checking out the used sites, when shipping is factored in, it's about the same as paying for a new copy. The first book is $13.95 and the second $12.95
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Post by slb2 on Sept 6, 2007 15:13:47 GMT -5
do you suppose those book suggestions might also apply to poetry books? I've a couple books, one a children's story, the other a middle grade story, but I'm not that interested in pursuing that line of literature. It's my poetry that I want published in book format. If those recommended books would be appropriate for me, then gk, you can buy one, I'll buy the other. We'll each read and then get together for coffee and swap books. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by SeattleDan on Sept 6, 2007 15:35:14 GMT -5
For poetry, I'd try submitting poems to the journals. Is American Poetry Review still around? New Yorker and Atlantic still publish poems, but I think you have to be established to get into them.
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Post by ptcaffey on Sept 6, 2007 22:26:09 GMT -5
Blood alone moves the pen! Have you ever asked yourselves in an hour of meditation which everyone finds during the day, how long we have been striving for greatness? Not only the years we've been at war, the war of writing, but from the moment as children when we realize that the world could be conquered. It has been a lifetime struggle, a never-ending fight. I say to you, and you will understand, that it is a privilege to write! We are warriors! Fledgling writers of prairiechatter, I ask you once more: rise and be worthy of this historical hour!
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Post by slb2 on Sept 6, 2007 22:44:10 GMT -5
pt, you're on. Of course, on what, I don't know. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Yes, I've submitted to journals and reviews and magazines and contests. I shall continue until I succeed. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by Trusty on Sept 7, 2007 5:05:21 GMT -5
Sometimes the motivation for greatness gets lost in the personality of bashfulness, and most bashful people get satisfaction by helping others. So, your agent and bookseller have a problem: They are in need of fantastic writings, and you can help them solve that problem. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by slb2 on Sept 7, 2007 16:13:04 GMT -5
So, that's my problem. I'm bashful.
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g0llum
![](http://emoticons4u.com/dressed/bek038.gif) Bashful Member
Dwight K. Schrute Rules!
Posts: 18
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Post by g0llum on Sept 9, 2007 0:16:44 GMT -5
Yeah, those books aren't focused for poetry. Sorry, slb2!
PT, do you watch NBC's THE OFFICE? It's the best show on NBC since the Simpsons, and there's an episode where Dwight (my avatar image) "borrows" that speech for an acceptance speech as salesman of the year for fictional paper company Dunder Mifflin. It's hilarious.
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g0llum
![](http://emoticons4u.com/dressed/bek038.gif) Bashful Member
Dwight K. Schrute Rules!
Posts: 18
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Post by g0llum on Sept 9, 2007 0:34:01 GMT -5
2) The Query Letter
This is the interesting part... I've heard it is more difficult to get an agent than it is to get a publisher. I don't know how factual it is, but it could very well be true. My agent, who has a boutique agency, gets around 500-1000 query letters a week. Ugh! Can you imagine sifting through all of that? It could end up taking all your time.
A query letter is simply a short letter introducing yourself to an agent, asking them if it's okay to send them your manuscript (MS). Talk about tough. How on earth are you supposed to be able to convince an agent that you're the next big thing without showing them your brilliant writing? Well...
Here's where the hard part comes in. The sad truth is that being an author is 50% writing and 50% marketing. You have to be able to stand out in a crowd. But the question is how?
I used to be a graphic designer, so I decided to build an identity package around our book -- letterhead, business cards, envelopes -- and instead of a self-addressed stamped envelope to get my rejections in, I sent out a self-addressed stamped postcard that made it harder for them to say "no thanks".
I used red in my design so as the agents would flipped through their massive piles, I'd stand out right away. All I needed was that extra 5 seconds, and then I'd have 'em hooked. I also had it printed on very expensive stock (donated to me by a friend who is a print broker). Now all of this could have cost thousands, but I'm lucky enough to be a decent designer, and more importantly, to have received the printing and the paper for free. Truth be told, I'd have paid for it all anyway -- I wanted to show the agents that I meant business -- and that I was professional and creative.
The next was the letter. I had to hit them hard, so in the first sentence I basically said my book was "Harry Potter meets Andy Griffiths' Mayberry". Now it really isn't either those things, but it did say it was similar to a really hot selling book, that it was "magical", and that it probably has something to do with small town America. I went on to briefly describe the plot, and then a little bit about Derek and I. I ended it asking them if I could please send them my MS. BTW -- NEVER more than a page -- in fact, the shorter, the better!
The last part is the self-addressed stamped envelope, but I wanted to make rejection hard. So instead, I created a postcard with our logo and some marketing text about the book on the front, and on the back I had some pithy sentences followed by a huge box that said "YES, PLEASE SEND ME YOUR MANUSCRIPT RIGHT AWAY!". At the bottom, in 4 point light gray text I had a box that read "Thanks for considering my agency, but we are not interested at this moment".
I wanted to be funny, engaging, professional, entertaining, but most of all I had to show the agents that by signing Derek and I, they were going to make tons of money.
I sent 300 of these queries. Now many people will say to only send to agents who rep your kind of books. I don't buy it. If an agent can sniff talent, they're going to rep you. Also, some websites will say certain agents aren't taking new clients due to a full roster. Again, not true. If they think they can sell your work, they'll pick you up. The stinky part is that of the 300 letters, 270 were either bad addresses, rejections, or in one case, the gentleman had recently passed away (I felt so guilty for sending him the query). The good news is that 30 wanted to read it. That is a 10% response rate -- and from what I've heard the average is 1%-2%. Now is that because I'm the most amazing writer in the world? NO WAY! I just took a professionally creative approach.
Of those 30, after they read the MS, 2/3 still said "thanks, but no thanks." That's tough! Really tough! But in this business, you have to have tough skin or you'll get buried quick.
All it takes is one agent to believe in you... even if 299 think you stink!
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Post by slb2 on Sept 9, 2007 0:49:33 GMT -5
excellent comments, Jon. I'm going to link this to a friend of mine (I've mentioned him here before) who has been working on his query for a while.
When I send a query, I usually only send to one magazine editor at a time and tailor my query to that specific person. I do have a children's picture book that I've shelved for the time being. Maybe I could dig it out and try your methods. I've only queried publishing houses that I knew accepted ms, but after about seven or eight rejections, I switched to newspapers and magazines--different stories altogether.
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Post by ozski on Sept 9, 2007 14:03:44 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]grimm.
Fact.
Dwight K. Schrute's favorite words of advice from Michael Scott:
[/glow][/move][/color]
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g0llum
![](http://emoticons4u.com/dressed/bek038.gif) Bashful Member
Dwight K. Schrute Rules!
Posts: 18
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Post by g0llum on Sept 21, 2007 16:28:52 GMT -5
Whenever I'm going to do something, I stop and ask myself if an idiot would do that. If they would, I do NOT do that thing.
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Post by ptcaffey on Sept 21, 2007 18:00:26 GMT -5
//Grimm: PT, do you watch NBC's THE OFFICE? It's the best show on NBC since the Simpsons, and there's an episode where Dwight (my avatar image) "borrows" that speech for an acceptance speech as salesman of the year for fictional paper company Dunder Mifflin. It's hilarious.//
What an amazing coincidence. How did this happen? Beets me. ;-)
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Post by Brit on Sept 22, 2007 6:21:39 GMT -5
I've not seen the ABC version of The Office, but by all reports I have read, it is not a patch on the original with Ricky Gervais.
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Post by ptcaffey on Sept 22, 2007 14:08:48 GMT -5
I've not seen the ABC version of The Office, but by all reports I have read, it is not a patch on the original with Ricky Gervais. Nonetheless, the Americans won the Revolutionary War.
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