Bullys beware this deserves it's own thread

[rogesgallery]

deadspin.com/#!5782089/revenge-of-the-bullied-casey-becomes-an-icon

[TheDude]

Wow. That was like watching what happened to Scut Farkus and Grover Dill all over again.
(Plus reminded me of what happened to at least a couple of bullies I encountered "back in the day.")

Did you see the [semi-wimpy] comment by the parent [Dad] of "Casey"?
That kid didn't "lash out" . . . The other little prick did.
"Casey" simply--and justly--put a quick end to the situation.
No "lashing out" involved.

(Also) Edited to Add:
To Lend Perspective: Read the Viewers' Comments at the end of the article with the embedded link.

"The 'Victim's' Mom" is now asking for an Apology.

Enough of that Current Events Stuff . . .
Back to trying to figure out how to make Amtrack work--for actual travel plans--as well as the model railroad in the mind provided by PBS. =)

As you said/suggested/hinted, Roger:
New Thread. On Topic. All Opinions Welcome.

[gailkate]

What a sad and ugly story. Is bullying getting worse, or has it always been around? As a girl child, I didn't see any public bullying, but a lot might have happened on the way to and from school. I remember only one fight in junior high. It seems as if kids are a lot more physical than they used to be, but do the rest of you remember this kind of thing? did your kids experience it?

Now that I think about it, some of the roughest behavior I've heard about in jr and sr high was the norm at a local Catholic boys' school - the Brothers freely slammed kids into lockers for any transgression. (And most parents thought that was good discipline.)

[TheDude]

What? Jean Sheperd's (name spelling optional =) "A Christmas Story" was "ugly"?
Most of that film was about Bullying and responses to it. In one form or another.
Wasn't it? =)

Shoot . . .
There were even forms of "Bullying" in "Lillies of The Field" . . . Weren't there?

(Appparently, we crossed threads . . . sorry)

[brutus]

I think bullying is as old as society. We, often, only think of it in physical terms as was depicted in the vid clip. Psychological bullying is more prevalent, I believe, because it's not nearly as obvious.
Picture a kid whose first real social introductions came when he went to school for the first time. Raised on a remote farm as an only child, he had no real chance to grow socially before his first bus ride. The rest of his school mates knew each other from early on, or were related so he was an outsider.
Of course, he committed social faux paux which were greeted by jeers and taunts. After some time, he felt forced to keep to himself so as to not encourage any more of such.
Fortunately, when eighth grade drew to a close, he moved to a different area and his high school days were a chance to start anew with a better understanding of society. Though he seemed "normal" on the outside, with friends and a fairly good social life, he as been a social cripple all of his life.
Is that not a form of bullying? Being made afraid to be social?
~B~

[rogesgallery]

It IS hard to picture a big burly guy like you in that position.

[brutus]

Yeah, well....

~B~

[gailkate]

Oh ~B~, I haven't been able to think of anything to say except, "I'm so sorry." Absolutely, there's psychological bullying. And anytime a kid has to brave the loneliness of a new school, all kinds of misery can build a wall around him. I went to a K-8 school and, when it was time for high school, my mother decided we should move to the town where she worked. Made sense, but it was hell. I entered 9th grade in a 7-9 grade school where all the circles of friends were set in stone.
For kids who'd gone to country schools, the big change came with jr. high, 7th grade. I talked to a woman at my last reunion and she described going to that jr. high on the first day. She and her best friend, 12 years old, were excited and anxious. They entered that huge and intimidating building holding hands. You can imagine the ridicule and the way they were permanently labeled.

Even the most isolated kids usually survive and eventually come out whole. But sometimes I think schools are the first in a string of organizations that squeeze the confidence and spontaneity out of people. Put three people together and you've got an organization - competition, backbiting, some sort of pecking order. A petrie dish for trouble.

[TheDude]

Yes, some of the worst bullying IS psychological.

From The Classic Seinfeld Episode: The Library

GEORGE: He gave me a wedgie.
JERRY: He got fired the next day.
ELAINE: Why do they call it a wedgie?
GEORGE: Because the underwear is pulled up from the back and ... it wedges in..
JERRY: They also have an atomic wedgie. Now the goal there is to actually get the
waistband on top of the head. Very rare.
ELAINE: Boys are sick.
JERRY: Well what do girls do ?
ELAINE: We just tease some one 'til they develop an eating disorder.

[booklady]

That video is stunning. I wasn't expecting to see what I saw.

I think in large part I agree with Casey's dad, who said it starts in the home, with being taught how to treat others. My boss chalks a lot of things up to "home training" (or lack of it) and more and more I agree with her.

From something as relatively minor as not using turn signals or blasting your car horn in a neighborhood at 6 a.m. any day of the week to letting go of a door as you walk through it so it closes on someone behind you, all the way up to picking on, unmercifully teasing and bullying others -- even, which I initially found amazing, others who are much bigger than you, as the Casey video graphically shows -- people are just not taught to be courteous and considerate of each other anymore.

As I mentioned in another thread, I just finished watching HBO's "John Adams." As a former teacher, and as someone very interested in history, especially the American Revolution, I do often look around and wonder what those who fought so hard for our freedoms would think of America in the 21st Century. Living in the South, and such a historical Civil War city, I think a lot's not appreciated here that should be, too.

[brutus]

Gail, we may seem to be whole, but, the scars last a lifetime. We stoic Bohemians tend to bury our sorrows deep enough that they're not visible, so we seem to be "okay". However, those buried things manifest themselves in ways we don't understand. Some take to drink or other substances. Others lash out and become violent. Still more tend to be introverts.
To this day, I do not like large gatherings of people in an enclosed area. I tend to always find myself searching for an escape route. I tend to like being near an exit. It's not that I intend to use it, I just like the security of knowing that I can escape at any time I choose.
Many times, folks, you've found my posts funny. Some of the most miserable kids become the best comedians. We cover our hurts by making fun of ourselves and situations.
It's just recently that I have begun to explore this compartment of the inner me. This is what I have found thus far.
~B~

[doctork]

~B~ I am sorry about what you have had to endure, not only in the past, but also that self-exploration process can be painful. Though ultimately healing, so it is well worth the work. (see my comments below about "toxic parents" - one can recover)

Booky, I think that "home training" is a Southernism, right? I am very familiar with the term as my parents were very big on the concept of Home Training, also endlessly mindful of "Mrs. Grundy." But other places I get a blank stare if I mention "home training" and I don't ever bother mentioning Mrs Grundy.

I do not recall much bullying from my childhood or even on up into middle and high school. My major problem was toxic parents, but I did not experience much trouble at school, other than the feeling of being an "outsider," because being in a military family we moved often, so I showed up in a new school where I was clearly not a member of any of the cliques that had already been set for years. Still, I always managed to "graft" myself in OK, and when I look at my old yearbooks and their inscriptions, said engraftment clearly worked a lot better than I ever realized. When I go to my NOLA high school reunions nowadays nobody even remembers that I didn't start there until 11 th grade, and in fact did not grow up in New Orleans.

Have any of you seen the movie "The Great Santini" with Robert Duvall as Bull Meacham (USMC aviator)? I thought the Meacham family was very much like my own, only I had better luck and karma than Ben Meacham, and my father flew safely into retirement, unlike Bull Meacham. When your family is like that, school is a haven. I am still friends with a man I dated pretty seriously back in high school, we were probably 16 years old. He told me a few years ago: "I was just a kid and even I could see your parents were abnormal."

Lucky for me, as gk pointed out, I have always been extroverted, guess that helped a lot even when I was a child.

However, recently I became friends again with a man I went to high school with, and to hear him describe it, you would never know we attended the same school. We attended Curtis High School on Staten Island in New York City. He moved there in 10th grade and describes being beaten up daily, and put in all the "dumb kids" classes (he is very intelligent and ultimately went to an Ivy League undergrad college and later the same for an MBA).

McKee High School (a vocational high school for "stupid kids") was two blocks down the street from Curtis, and I was sure there were lots of fights there. In fact, that is where Frank McCourt taught (he was the author of best-selling books "Angela's Ashes" and "Tis") and he describes lots of such behavior; I never observed bullying and fights at Curtis. But obviously they happened.

I went to the same HS as Rick but started in 9th grade, having moved from Honolulu to NYC. The 9th grade was very small because it was only (Italian and Irish) Catholic kids who graduated from the Catholic K-8 schools and decided to go to a public HS; all the other kids were at 7 - 9th grade junior high schools, and they would start at Curtis in the 10th grade. I was instantly a celebrity, having moved from Hawaii, (the other kids all wanted to know where was my grass skirt, and could I do the hula) and I was elected class president right away.

My 7th and 8th grade school in Hawaii (Punahou, same as Obama) had been very rigorous, so at Curtis I was tested and put immediately into several 10th grade classes, where the test results showed I belonged, instead of 9th grade. The principal and vice principal liked me, so the VP had me teach his geography class for him, as it was obvious I knew more geography than he did. I was assigned to be an "aide" in the office that made up everyone's class schedules, as this was before the days of computer spread sheets. So me and my friends got all the desirable classes and the desirable time schedules!

Punahou was strict, and being a private school, you got kicked out if you didn't behave. I remember feeling pain in middle school as far as being sure to be dressed "right" - correct style and brand name, but I made friends quickly, they told me what clothes to buy, helped me shop, and then it was OK. Of course I was lucky that my parents had the money to let me buy the "right" clothes. And somewhat miraculously, they did seem to grasp that it was Very Important to be dressed right.

My elementary schools (one in San Francisco, two in wealthy Fairfax County in Northern Virginia, and one in Honolulu) were all in middle class to affluent neighborhoods where parents respected school authorities, wanted a good education for their kids, and any reports of misbehavior from the school were taken seriously and resulted in the parents' imposing relevant discipline at home. Home training and all. Now the parents defend and spoil their kids, threaten to sue the schools, and no one seems to care any more about "home training."

When I recall teasing (no bullying) from my school days, it seems that it was usually about clothes, or possibly hair and make-up, not physical fights. Maybe it was a "girl thing" - and of course, hair clothes and make-up can be easily changed. Perhaps because I changed schools so often, I got used to changing clothes, hair and make-up (though no one was allowed to wear make-up until high school, AFAIK). I attended 8 different schools in 5 states from 1st - 12th grades. I don't think I went to kindergarden, maybe they didn't have it in San Francisco back in those days. And maybe even a kid gets thick skin and wears blinders during the course of 8 schools.

[brutus]

Sounds like you weathered all the changing scenery quite well, K. However, there is one glaring difference between you and me, which you "admitted" to, that being money.

My parents were not well off at all. I found myself being about one or two fashion generations behind everybody else. That can be a SOB, I'll tell you.
Plus, as a non-member of previously erected circles, anything I had or did that wasn't up to date was just fodder for their mill.
~B~

[doctork]

We certainly weren't "well-off" but we were middle class, as was the usual case for military officers "back in the day." And I think my parents had their moments of awareness when they realized that being perpetual (though "high-functioning") drunkards was hard on their kids, so they would try to "make it up to us" by giving me enough allowance that I could buy some clothes with the "right" labels.

And yes, I "get it" - in junior high and high school, wearing the right clothes is truly critical to any success, because if you are subject to constant ridicule and/or bullying, you can't possibly pay attention in class, learn, and do well on tests. Not to mention it's no fun being tortured at school (or at home for that matter). Fortunately for me, the need for wearing the right clothes coincided with getting to age 12 or 13 when the opportunities for earning significant spending money begin. Younger kids can't babysit, and it takes a few years of sewing experience before you are good enough that adults will pay you to do it for them.

Ironically, I was a very talented seamstress by 6th grade so I made a fair amount of money (for a kid) by sewing custom-made clothes for other people. One client of mine would either buy or borrow a designer dress, then I would take her measurements, design a pattern, and sew her an exact copy of the designer dress. I never sewed my own clothes of course, because that was not "cool."

I also developed a thriving and lucrative business around 6th or 7th grade. I bought copies of "Playboy" and similar at a news stand downtown, then sold them to my (male) classmates at a substantial mark-up. They were too embarrassed to buy those magazines at the stand themselves, but they would buy them from me.

I occasionally wonder now why the owner would be selling those magazines to an obviously under-age child, but he did, and I prospered.

So I wouldn't say that I was given extravagant sums of money by my parents for shopping - I earned much of it myself. I was always very enterprising as a kid - sold the most Girl Scout cookies in the county, collected soda pop bottles by the hundreds every week for the deposit money, did lots of babysitting. Obtaining the MBA as a middle-aged adult was helpful, but I had a good head for business long before the degree program.

[brutus]

Being "farm bound" helping with spring's work, haying, chores, etc, I didn't have the opportunity for outside income. I was the "hired hand", but didn't receive a paycheck. The money, just simply, was not there.
Well, anyway, I have nearly reached the half-century mark in life and I'm still here. It could well have been me who decided to open fire in school to absolve myself of the "problems" I endured. However, being taught well at home, I didn't even consider it to be an option.
~B~

[doctork]

So "home training" may not be a Southernism if you had it in North Dakota, Brutus! Or maybe it was called something else even if it was the same thing.

No question I grew up a city girl because that is where my dad was stationed by the military, and country life is different. But having spent 10 years in West Virginia (two-thirds of the population lives in towns of fewer than 2,500 people) and now a year with the Navajo (the rez is the size of WV but has a population of around 200,000), they have taught me their ways of earning spare cash.

Most Navajo do more ranching than farming, and kids generally are given livestock to care for at a very young age, say by 5 or 6 years old they become responsible for their animals, with some supervision by parents and older siblings. Right now is lambing season and whole families are busy with that. But with the ownership and care also come the rewards - the livestock are sold for slaughter and those who raised the animals get paid when they are sold.

It seems similar to the West Virginia 4-H kids. And most kids in rural WV were in 4-H and had animals to show at the county fair, and then on to the state fair, as they got older and more experienced. WV is also more oriented to small-scale farming than ranching (it's all mountains, no plains), and that may be a lot different from North Dakota.

One of my patients told me that the "Butchering Competition" is the largest point component of the Miss Navajo Nation contest. I don't think that is a part of the Miss America or Miss USA contest! But apparently any young woman who is to represent the Navajo Nation is expected to be an excellent butcher, so I think that must be part of their home training.

Then there are the traditional crafts (rug weaving, jewelry making, pottery) as well as performances of traditional dances and ceremonies. Additional opportunity for earning extra income, but pretty much unique to Navajo (or Hopi), definitely not available to ND Bohemian farm boys, for sure.

I never had any experience growing up on a farm, so I know only what others tell me. On my mother's side, her grandparents were farmers, but by the time her parents moved "to the farm" it was the depression and they really struggled to stay fed, as those farming skills had been forgotten. Chickens and eggs - they could do that. Shooting squirrels and doves - that they could manage. Fishing too. But anything more, they needed wage income to buy it.

My mother and her sister never described any bullying when growing up. My grandmother told me that the other kids at her school made fun of her because her mother was a housekeeper and janitor, earned her living cleaning up other people's mess. But it paid the bills.

[brutus]

No, I was never given a critter to raise for my own cash. I presume every head was needed for income to the farm.

The last year we were on the farm, I was allowed to break up a small piece (4 acres, I think) of hayland that I would be allowed to crop for my own. However, the next year, the land was rented to a neighbor and I never got to farm for myself. Oh well! I guess maybe things did work out for the better.
~B~

[booklady]

Doc, I can't believe you sold Playboy to the boys at a marked-up price! That is too funny.

[TheDude]

Find the Bully(ies) in this item from "News of The Weird"

The Continuing Crisis

In May 2008, classroom disrupter Alex Barton, 5, was finally made by his teacher at Morningside Elementary kindergarten in St. Lucie County, Fla., to sit down and listen to the accumulated complaints of his classmates, who then were asked to vote on asking Alex to leave the class. (He lost, 14-2.)

Shortly afterward, Alex was diagnosed with a form of autism, and his mother filed a federal disability discrimination lawsuit, citing Alex's "humiliation" by the voting incident. A settlement was reached in February 2011 when the school district agreed to pay Alex $350,000 (which included legal expenses).

Said Ms. Barton, "Money can't take care of what (the school district) did to my family."
[South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 2-3-2011]

(DudeNote: What she said about [the] money probably had a lot to do with the pittance left over after her lawyers finished draining off their share.)

[gailkate]

Even if Alex wasn't autistic, the class vote was inexcusable. There must be more to this story - parent/teacher conferences to no avail? Principal involved and unable to mediate? Any teacher who would do that to a kid should be on probation at the very least. Leave without pay while they decide whether to fire her.

The High-Five Gutsy Kid Award goes to the two who voted no.

[doctork]

Yeah, where is Paul Harvey and "The Rest of the Story" right when we need him. How did it ever get to a classroom "vote" amongst 5 year olds?

I would suppose though, that if Alex was diagnosed with ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder seems to be the currently PC terminology) after this transpired then disability discrimination ought not to be allowed as cause. But IANAL what do I know?

And Dude, the lawyer gets "only" 33 - 50% but usually gets that cut before "expenses," so Alex and Mom likely netted even less than you think!

My comment: What kind of mom lets her kid get treated like that at any school, to the point where a 5 year is "voted off the island"? My ADHD kid had some serious difficulty with a teacher, we could not reach resolution with teacher or principal, so I moved her to a different school pronto. Personally I wouldn't seek to prove a point or "go for the gold" on the back of my kid.

[doctork]

Mar 19, 2011 22:13:57 GMT -5 booklady said:

Doc, I can't believe you sold Playboy to the boys at a marked-up price! That is too funny.

Well I certainly wasn't going to make a habit of buying Playboy "just as a favor!" Those boys could go buy their own Playboy if they preferred. ;D

Have to admit, it was pretty easy money since the news stand was right at the bus stop where I had to change buses anyway. Much easier than babysitting (ever see that movie "Adventures in Babysitting"?).

[gailkate]

I think people often sue because they need to take action, they need some sense of justice. It isn't so much to get money as to punish the wrongdoer. When I worked in transportation, we used to get sued by grieving relatives of car crash victims. In those cases, it was often a kind of denial - sue the state because the road dipped and try to avenge the beloved. It gave them focus during that terrible helpless time when the loss is unbearable.
In Alex's mom's case, maybe she'd tried everything and wasn't in a position to get her son into another school. Once she learned her son had a diagnosable problem she was bitter at how he'd been treated and how no one at the school helped - in fact, they'd made it much much worse.
(Let's hope Alex doesn't end up taking a gun to a candidate's meet & greet 15 years from now.)

[TheDude]

Gailkate:
"Even if Alex wasn't autistic, the class vote was inexcusable."

[Despite the apparent divergence of our perceptual frameworks/worldviews/ "'political' 'viewpoints'" (as evidenced, in part, by the "Tests" as reported on a different thread =) I agree completely with your statement.]

"There must be more to this story - parent/teacher conferences to no avail?
"Principal involved and unable to mediate?
"Any teacher who would do that to a kid should be on probation at the very least.
"Leave without pay while they decide whether to fire her."

[Again, I agree, completely . . . And I want to take a moment to thank you for having just presented an excellent--if unintentional--talking point/example in favor of the non-unionization of "teachers."
You know . . . Like in Wisconsin.]

"The High-Five Gutsy Kid Award goes to the two who voted no."

[Well . . . I'm not so sure about buying, prematurely, into the accolades for the dissenters. Chances are, they were probably the co-disruptors of the Kindergarten classroom in question.]


Dr.K:
Yeah, where is Paul Harvey and "The Rest of the Story" right when we need him.

[ You mean . . . you haven't heard about . . . Paul? . . . (sob) =) ]

How did it ever get to a classroom "vote" amongst 5 year olds?

[It was probably just one of those little "Self-Esteem" building exercises and/or adventures in "democracy" (that have been so popular since actual teaching went out of style) gone awry or run amok. Maybe even haywire. Perhaps even to the point of FUBAR.]

I would suppose though, that if Alex was diagnosed with ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder seems to be the currently PC terminology) after this transpired then disability discrimination ought not to be allowed as cause. But IANAL what do I know?



And Dude, the lawyer gets "only" 33 - 50% but usually gets that cut before "expenses," so Alex and Mom likely netted even less than you think!

[I'm thinkin' that they need to go back at the Teacher/Counselor/School Nurse/Administration/School for "failure to get the kid on a drug in a timely manner" . . . And use a different lawyer!]

My comment: What kind of mom lets her kid get treated like that at any school, to the point where a 5 year is "voted off the island"? My ADHD kid had some serious difficulty with a teacher, we could not reach resolution with teacher or principal, so I moved her to a different school pronto. Personally I wouldn't seek to prove a point or "go for the gold" on the back of my kid.

[My wife and I agree that while the "mom" was less than perfect, the "teacher" was a total waste of taxpayers dollars and a drain on common sense. Plus stupid, insensitive and incompetent. My wife's son (from a previous marriage), now about 40, was subjected to something similar to that. She still isn't over it. And she, my wife, his mom is a lot like Mother Teresa. Regardless of how you spell Theresa?]


Dr.K:
Much easier than babysitting (ever see that movie "Adventures in Babysitting"?).

[One of my favorite movies ever. No kidding.]
[BTW: Do you ever catch reruns of The Bernie Mac Show?]

P.S./BTW: Looking back, I think that some of the most effective--and memorable--"bullying" I have ever experienced was from School Teachers (e.g. my having to sit in "The Quiet Chair" in Kindergarten (Bully: Mrs. Wells)/Being sent to sit in the Hallway to reflect upon threats by my First Grade teacher (Bully: Mrs. Cummings) to be sent back to Kindergarten) and, later, by "Administrators" (e.g. Vice-Principals/Wrestling Coaches in High School) attempting to interfere with my Freedom of Speech and Assembly back in those Halciyon Daze of Student Protest and Unrest c. 1970.) By the time I reached High School I knew how to handle bullies of any age, position or description. =)

But like Bob Dylan said in My Back Pages . . . "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now."

[gailkate]

So happy we can finally agree - sort of.

You were a teacher. Booky was a teacher. I was a teacher. Hence teachers are not all incompetent slackers. Ipso facto. Finis.