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Post by gailkate on Sept 24, 2008 10:43:22 GMT -5
I just received an email from a group requesting more critical questions on the debates. So far the media have been hyping a lot of irrelevant stuff. What do you think should be the topics asked of our presidential candidates?
The first is Friday night.
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Post by Jane on Sept 24, 2008 15:40:16 GMT -5
What do you think should be done about the current economic crisis?
How does this change your plans for tax cuts, spending etc?
Address the "family values", "elitist" claims. (Looking at the four candidates, I much prefer the family values of Obama and Biden!)
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Post by sailor on Sept 24, 2008 17:18:24 GMT -5
Since this isn't in the Political Forum, I'll go ahead and submit a debate question.
Question: How do you feel about elevating the position of Poets Laureate of the United States to a Cabinet level position? And, how would you use the newly created position of Secretary of Poetry and poetry in general to solve the problems of the world?
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Post by brutus on Sept 24, 2008 17:32:40 GMT -5
Since this isn't in the Political Forum, I'll go ahead and submit a debate question. Question: How do you feel about elevating the position of Poets Laureate of the United States to a Cabinet level position? And, how would you use the newly created position of Secretary of Poetry and poetry in general to solve the problems of the world? Well, in meetings, he could drum up little ditties like; Roses are red; Violets are blue; I just got screwed; And so did you! ~B~
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Post by sailor on Sept 24, 2008 17:40:46 GMT -5
The Secretary of Agriculture could join in with...
Tractors are green And yellow too When we get done screwing The farmers Then we'll screw you
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Post by booklady on Sept 24, 2008 19:08:19 GMT -5
I would like to see both candidates give their assessments of No Child Left Behind, whether it has been successful or not, and whether dictums from Washington, D.C. regarding education -- teacher licensing, standardized test performance, benchmarks, curriculum, and so on -- should be binding on state and local boards of education or simply recommendations.
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Post by doctork on Sept 24, 2008 20:20:20 GMT -5
I'd like to see health care addressed.
Why do we spend more than twice as much as any other industrialized nation (more than $7,500 per person per year), yet rank near the bottom in measures of population health?
How do you plan to provide health insurance coverage for everyone without a mandate, especially for those adults who are already diagnosed with diabetes, heart disease, cancer and other diseases that render them unable to buy insurance in the private market?
If you do not believe that every US citizen has a right to necessary health care, why not?
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Post by rogesgallery on Sept 24, 2008 23:55:19 GMT -5
Hi K! By the way...Glad you got home safe—Thanks for being a positive ambassador on our behalf.
It seems to me we're half way to socialism — Hopefully the health care system won't have to collapse before people realize that a certain amount of socialism is necessary for the path toward civilization to progress.
I just heard a poll that said more people think "Obama knows what they're going through". Yikes! So Obama can see the future now? I don't think so.
We are on the first trip of the worlds biggest roller coaster and somewhere ahead of us there's a crew still assembling the tracks. If we keep up the speed and just enjoy the ride we Might jet off into a Maya'esque oblivion — if we slow down we Might not make it around the next Loop...And the Gods are all gathered in the Universal Family room sipping mothers milk, munching homo sapien crackers, and laying bets on whether we'll earn our second sapien, or become a homo homonym.
I Am... looking forward to hearing Obama debate himself and hoping Joe Bidden doesn't make Mrs. Paliden cry Roges
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Post by rogesgallery on Sept 25, 2008 0:10:59 GMT -5
Since this isn't in the Political Forum, I'll go ahead and submit a debate question. Question: How do you feel about elevating the position of Poets Laureate of the United States to a Cabinet level position? And, how would you use the newly created position of Secretary of Poetry and poetry in general to solve the problems of the world? Poetry, my semi-Nipponese seafaring sonneteer, is a pooor substitute for the invalid invective we are soo accustomed to.
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Post by sailor on Sept 25, 2008 7:42:33 GMT -5
wtfo
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Post by sailor on Sept 25, 2008 7:43:18 GMT -5
Since this isn't in the Political Forum, I'll go ahead and submit a debate question. Question: How do you feel about elevating the position of Poets Laureate of the United States to a Cabinet level position? And, how would you use the newly created position of Secretary of Poetry and poetry in general to solve the problems of the world? Poetry, my semi-Nipponese seafaring sonneteer, is a pooor substitute for the invalid invective we are soo accustomed to. The professor and Mary Ann, Here on Gilligans Isle.
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Post by doctork on Sept 25, 2008 10:06:31 GMT -5
////Hopefully the health care system won't have to collapse before people realize that a certain amount of socialism is necessary for the path toward civilization to progress. //
The irony - the only sector of the population that has universal socialized medicine is the US military. They all have access to doctors who are employed by the government and who work in government-owned facilities.
And AFAIK, the only sector of the population with a legal right to health care is prisoners.
I don't get it. But I think it is likely that the Poet Laureate will have as good a response to these concerns as anyone. No one else is talking sense. Let's hear it Mike!
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Post by sailor on Sept 25, 2008 17:26:06 GMT -5
Well, what I’d like to know is how many zeros are there in $700 billion.
I don't think my pocket calculator can handle numbers that big.
For the debate I think that both candidates should be given a chalkboard and a piece of chalk and be asked to write out numerically 700 billion. The first one to do it correctly can have my vote.
The poet laureate will have to come up with a word that rhymes with billion.
I gotta feelin' We’re gettin' screwed Outta 700 billion Come rain or come shine
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Post by booklady on Sept 26, 2008 13:12:43 GMT -5
McCain's shenanigans over the past two or three days have really dropped him in my estimation. And Palin babbles like an idiot when she doesn't use a speech somebody else wrote.
JMO
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Post by sailor on Sept 26, 2008 13:56:16 GMT -5
$700,000,000,000
Way to go, Joe!
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Post by qhperson on Sept 26, 2008 14:26:55 GMT -5
"McCain's shenanigans over the past two or three days have really dropped him in my estimation. And Palin babbles like an idiot when she doesn't use a speech somebody else wrote."
I don't think it's babbling "like" an idiot so much as being an idiot. She's what my mother used to call sly--sneaky and capable of doing things for her own benefit and capable of appearing smart without actually being smart, at least in the long-run. I've been reading the New Yorker piece on Palin, and it confirms my first impression that she's ruthless, self-absorbed, and dangerous because she'll do anything to get what she wants. Also totally unqualified to be v-p, and even less qualified to be president if McC keels over dead or gets taken out by another occurrence of cancer.
As to McC's debate behavior, I think he's just been trying to duck the debate with Obama. It's kind of funny because although McC isn't much on debate, neither is Obama. That makes me wonder if McC isn't hiding something else, or trying to hide something else.
As to a Biden/Palin debate, even though Biden can't possibly lose in terms of pure debate, if he attempts to take her on fairly, he'll be accused of bullying her. The majority of her base is capable of emotional rather than intellectual response, and there's really nothing you can do with people like that. It would be like trying to convince a mother that her 3-year-old isn't brilliant, beautiful and wonderful--it'll get you killed even though every word you speak is true and honest.
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Post by booklady on Sept 26, 2008 17:04:10 GMT -5
Q, is the piece on Palin in the issue currently on sale?
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Post by booklady on Sept 26, 2008 17:47:33 GMT -5
One thing that really bothered me about McCain's posturing on the debate was his claim that he and Obama needed to be in DC working on the economic disaster without regard for the millions that had been spent preparing for the debate, and the inconvenience he was causing people, organizations, the University of Mississippi, and the city of Oxford.
I liked what Obama said: we both have big jets with our names on them that can get us back to Washington real fast if we're needed.
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Post by gailkate on Sept 26, 2008 19:12:29 GMT -5
One thing that really bothered me about McCain's posturing on the debate was his claim that he and Obama needed to be in DC working on the economic disaster without regard for the millions that had been spent preparing for the debate, and the inconvenience he was causing people, organizations, the University of Mississippi, and the city of Oxford. I liked what Obama said: we both have big jets with our names on them that can get us back to Washington real fast if we're needed. Damn right, Bl. Also his observation that presidents really ought to be able to do more than one thing at a time. McCain wasn't even on any of the financial committees negotiating the bill. All he did was waste people's time. I've honestly started feeling sorry for McCain as his duplicity and manipulation have gotten so blatant. He was a better man than this. He should have gotten the Rep. nomination in 2000. That was his time. Now he's past his prime, and he's stooping to tricks that would have made him retch when he was his best self. Obviously, poor Jim Lehrer will have to link foreign affairs and the economy in tonight's questions. I'd like to hear him ask how bailing out German banks is necessary to support our allies and shore up the global economy. Go here if you want to sign up to rate the debates. freepress.net/debatesI think the focus is on the questions, not who wins or loses.
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Post by doctork on Sept 26, 2008 20:09:58 GMT -5
Watching the debates now.
I think I've said it before , but I'll say it again. I have serious medical concerns about McCain - I think his repeated slips of the tongue and mistakes could indicate mild cognitive impairment - preCursor to senility.
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Post by booklady on Sept 26, 2008 20:23:06 GMT -5
Why are they so resistant to speaking TO and directly rebutting each other, as Lehrer is trying to get them to do?!
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Post by sailor on Sept 26, 2008 21:42:27 GMT -5
I listened to most of the debate on the radio. I enjoyed it and thought that they both did well.
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Post by rogesgallery on Sept 27, 2008 4:20:30 GMT -5
I am watching the debate online right now CNN PART !.McCain seems to think that because he has a reputation as an asshole he can change things. Obama makes a good point about loopholes in the corporate tax code. Go getem Jim! I have been waiting for someone to say that we need to build our economy from the bottom up and damn, OB just said those very words. Theres the miss congeniallity thing again and he's dragging mis miss congeniality along with him. Neither one of them are bringing up the fact that we destroyed a country and shattered a culture. I personally don't like either one of their attitudes about that. I hate that attitude that we have to keep up the killing just so we come out winners. OOh yea the war didn't start in 2007. Playing the violin John cry for a few poor GIs that want to win and shit on the ones that will die with our continued involvement in Iraq. Ignore the fact that the IRAQI's don't want us to win the war FOR them. Pride can be a tremendously ugly and self serving motive. Acountability in AF and PAK. F**k John, we've given PAK 10 Bil already and they have done nothing to help us against the Taliban or Al Queda. The first Gulf war was a mistake and it was a mistaKE Before Saddam attacked Kuwaite What is this cry on mty shoulder crap" I've gotta bracelet" What has that to do with being President. Wha!!! A sec ond holocaust#$%^& What the heck is happening in Darfur. What 'is' provokative is not employing diplomacy with Iran. Isreal needs to grow up — It doesn't deserve anything that it can't negotiate by itself ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Achmedinijad did not say Isreal should be wiped off the map According to the official translator for him at the UN he said "Isreal will fade into obscurity" The NY Times mistranslated his statement. Any statesman who doesn't know this or is purposly misstating Achmedinijad is being dangerously disingenuous. What is dangerous is demonizing without validity. John would be great in a street fight but he would look ridiculous trying to talk to Achmedinijad when he can't even pronounce his name properly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sorry McCain You are smart enough, educated enough, and you are dedicated enough, but you are too prideful too insecure and too hotheaded to be president. OOOh Was that Obama that just tok over the entire debate with the statement "Come on we've gotta move on " Whoa that was a powerful move. Check—mate "All the sacrifices of blood and treasure" That's Bull Obama there are Vet outreach centers in every major city in the country. John you've been a defender of veterans programs for thirty years and done a fine job Keep it up right where you are, in the senate. You're too old for this job— too tightly wound...like we all are Bro. Mello out, go home and enjoy your wife , get to know your kids fer crissake. History isn't that important. How many Roman emperors can anyone name if asked without reference. This is a job for Batman I'm really having a hard time seeing past the Bat ears...Is that weird or what. SNL is gonna hook up on that I'm sure of it Thanks Jim good job In the wrapup I agree with the oppinion that Obama talked to the camera — or the people — That made an impression on me right off and maybe that is why McCain looked insecure to me. A.ll women uder 30 look 18 to me anymore....Hmm The Blogger oppinions semmed to be the least contentious and the least combative. Bidden— Very good point that Barak voiced an exit strategy McCain couldn't get past the surge. Nobody won and noone lost in my opinion. I just think Obama's demeanor is more presidential. He has the vigor and and the ability to calmly command in serious circumstances. Theoretically I don't think that anyone could stand in front of Obama and say they wanted to blow Isreal off the map but I think McCain coud goad someone into a statement like that as well as bush. That's all folks my debate night Ramble is over.
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Post by doctork on Sept 27, 2008 7:08:30 GMT -5
I thought your ramble was pretty insightful roges. Hit a lot of the high points that I also took note of. Thanks for speaking up about Israel needing to take care of itself, and the mistranslation of Achmidinejad's statement. Do you have a source for that? I'm trying to arrange vacation in Israel for November - gotta see for myself what's going on over there, because I don't think "the news media" are relaying an accurate picture.
Booky you're right - only I think McCain is more niot talking to Obama than mutual. Jim Lehrer is trying hard, doind a really good job. Specialy compared to the "debate" moderated by Charlie Gibson. Gwen Ifill is doind the next one.
McCain looks too old and grumpy, just too many tired slogans and thoughtless mistakes.
But I thought neither one looked as good as I expected given all the prep, and overall credible jobs but rather boring.
I should go back to bed, too early out here on the left coast.
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Post by ozski on Sept 27, 2008 7:31:43 GMT -5
And now a word from a middle class midwestern caucasian undecided middle-aged female registered independent voter. (There needs to be an acronym for that category. Anyone?)
roges, I agree with a vast majority of what you wrote. McCain did seem ready to explode a time or two, and pointedly (it seemed) would not look at Obama while he (Obama) was speaking.
McCain's knowledge of foreign affairs was impressive, if not selective (excellent point re Darfur). But I did come away with some reassurance about Mr. Obama that had previously caused me deep concern. While he lacks the years of experience that McCain does, I see other qualities that could be an asset to the country. He is extremely intelligent, level-headed and capable, something I was unsure of before watching this debate.
Both men did do well, sailor. I anxiously await the following debates, both presidential and vice-presidential.
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Post by gailkate on Sept 27, 2008 9:36:40 GMT -5
I sure wish I'd known you all were doing running commentary. Next time we should make a plan to watch together, just like the GK sat. nites.
K, I don't know if I've said so, but I agree that McCain looks weakened. And I hate seeing the way he's submitted himself to the marketing makeovers of his handlers - the continual smirking grin, the robotic repetition of key phrases. Is it too obvious to say he's sold his soul to the devil who will make him president?
I like Lehrer a lot, but I wasn't happy with the format. It would be great if they could talk with each other, but when that happened it just became a contest to see who could talk over the other longest - a jumble of lost sentences for me. And I thought the "wrap-up" was bad. Did Lehrer introduce it that way? I just thought McCain got the last word with all his prepared statements and Obama had no time to do his own summary.
Kudos, roges, you have insights we need to hear. One thing that annoyed me about the Iraq discussion was that Obama didn't fight back on the "surge is working" bromide. The surge and the paid Awakeninging Councils and the al-Sadr cease-fire are working - and it looks as if the Iraqi balance may be teetering. How long must we stay? They don't even want us anymore and I'm sick of talking about coming home in victory. why doesn't this outdated language and mindset get challenged?
Neither one of them are bringing up the fact that we destroyed a country and shattered a culture. I personally don't like either one of their attitudes about that. And killed, maimed, burned and orphaned uncountable human beings who had no where to hide from the slaughter. I agree that Obama doesn't bring this up, but I think it's cenntral to his rejection of the war from the beginning. For some reason, leaders are told they'll look soft if they talk about victims.
Far be it from me to try to influence you, Oz, but..... vote for Obama.
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Post by rogesgallery on Sept 27, 2008 15:05:07 GMT -5
I would say that both of them are honest men and believe what the are and are not (out of political necessity) saying. Neither seems to be employing NLP tactics (such as continuous blinking or constant random eye movements) to mask their speech. I find this especially commendable in a politician of McCain's age and experience. I agree with Doc though (especially in light of the 'Paliden' effect) , that McCain missed his time to be President by one election. He should have been in GWBs place. We would be a lot better off now (but we would likely also be better off with Bono or the Boobingrabber/Terminator or even Minnesota's vampire candidate for governor [how did he do by the way]). I digress (but digression is a valuable avenue to mindless distr,action these days). Doc, I have heard the Correct translation of Ahmadinejad statement several times but the latest and the most credible was last week on a broadcast of the Commonwealth Club of California. They featured Raj Patel, author of "Stuffed and Starved" he is an American/Iranian and also the official translator for Iran at the UN You can find the interview at: www.commonwealthclub.org/Here is an article from the Guardian: www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/14/post155The thing I find interesting is that I have yet to find a correction from the NY Times. I'm not sure what that means. It is interesting to note the frequency of statements like: "i expected them to be more confrontational" or "I thought it was rather dull" To me it was refreshing to see two candidates approach the debate with seemingly mutual respect instead of attacking each other with bald rhetoric. Maybe this is because they realize (finally) that every vowel of their statements, every flush of blood at the throat, every slight stutter is going to be scrutinized in slow motion. Maybe it was one of the conditions of McCains campaign advisors. Anyone have any input here? Oz I'm working on the acromym Something Hip Hop like — MC CUF Mi-AR.... Yeah it's all about pride eh Gail What's up with that. I guess we're just an overly prideful nation. Self interested.
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Post by gailkate on Sept 28, 2008 9:37:59 GMT -5
I didn't think McCain was respectful. He was condescending. So to me it wasn't refreshing, rather a tense 90 mins, which I had to watch but wished I could just skip.
One more take on the "wipe off map" phrase. In an interview with - who? maybe NPR - Ahmadinejad said something like "look at the former Soviet Union, it no longer exists." Then he referred to Palestine, implying that they would be the nation on that land, not that Israelis would be vaporized.
It's terrifying to see how matters of war and peace can rest on a faulty translation. Ahmadinejad is a nasty little package, loving the international attention he gets, but he's no reason to go to war. Hey, that was true of Saddam, too, wasn't it?
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Post by booklady on Sept 28, 2008 11:05:07 GMT -5
The comment Obama made about Iraq having a large budget surplus while we're paying through the nose ostensibly to help them out upset me.
I realize I'm politically dumb and naive, but sometimes I think we should cut off aid to everybody until we can pay our own bills.
Just like real life.
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Post by doctork on Sept 28, 2008 23:25:46 GMT -5
//And now a word from a middle class midwestern caucasian undecided middle-aged female registered independent voter. (There needs to be an acronym for that category. Anyone?)//
I've been trying to work this into McWife but it doesn't quite fit: Middle class White Independent Female Elector (undecided)?
Booky you make an excellent suggestion - don't hand out $$ to others til you pay your own bills.
However, those deciders don't live in real life, they are inside the Beltway.
Or maybe they emulate the other real life - live on credit cards, buy houses you can't afford, lease a car that you could never afford to buy...
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