|
Post by hartlikeawheel on Jan 3, 2010 1:03:54 GMT -5
Yes, bless our support folks and guard them from the daily peril to body and spirit.
I agree that our military could be put to good use at home. I'm presently readingOne Second After and thinking of the challenges we face in the future.
Also wondering - if I make little letters out of tin foil and glue them to my naughty bits to spell "I see you peeking" do you think I'd still be let on the plane? And would they be sufficient distraction from what may appear beauty flaws?
It remains to be seen how comfortable I'll be flying next week. But as far as fear goes, the feeling and I have long been strangers. I hope to continue to be able to say that.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 3, 2010 22:03:28 GMT -5
You should be OK hart, only 19 US airports have WBI at present, and most use it only if you alarm the metal detector. However, the corporatocrats are working on fixing that by lining their pockets selling TSA more machines. Just remember, none of these machines detect explosives. [But isn't the point to detect bombs? Shut up K.]
Now in an "I couldn't make this up if I tried" move (not that you have to make it up), one of the TSA Special Agents who threatened Steve Frischling in his home has left his notebook in a public place, with Super Secret Information notes in it, so any random finder was free to read it. Is somebody writing a script for a sit-com?
The men sent by TSA to Steve's house were no amateurs: //One served as the Director of Counter Terrorism, the other is former Director of Global Security. Collectively these two agents have 50+ years as a Secret Service Agents//
Which is worse: 1) One of these "professionals" forgot his notebook in a public place, or 2) Our government uses this type of heavy-duty security and intelligence personnel to go after a blogger instead of real terrorists, just to save TSA some embarrassment.
Frankly, I think there is no saving TSA and DHS ("The system worked fine") from embarrassment. They are looking like the Keystone Kops.
|
|
|
Post by gailkate on Jan 4, 2010 0:15:49 GMT -5
Someone has wised up and ordered extra screening for people entering the US from 14 dubious countries - Countries of Dubeity? I haven't read details but this makes sense to me. It avoids the problem of profiling and simply says bad guys have tended to operate from bases in these countries. Ergo, everyone gets serious frisking - except that US citizens would be exempt from the extra attention. Of course, some US citizens have adopted traitorous associations (remember Walker, the poor crazed kid who joined al-Quaida?) but all the people involved in 9/11 with valid visas would presumably have been stopped with such a screening.
Oh, wait. All those guys had were box cutters and the ability to fly jets. So it isn't just bombs we're worried about, K. Still, this would offer another line of defense.
Oh, wait again. All the terrorists have to do is not bring anything into the country. They could still buy stuff for bombs and fly out, couldn't they? Or not try to explode a bomb on a plane, just switch to subway and train stations. The minute we think of something, the more Hydra heads pop up.
BTW, that's why I agree that "War on Terror" was always a misnomer. There are no armies to defeat, no leaders to surrender to us, no one to sign a treaty with. There will never be an end.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 4, 2010 6:41:59 GMT -5
As always, it's worse than you think, gk. All the terrorists have to do is attack the security line where everyone is waiting for the intensified frisking. Here's what it looked like at EWR (Newark's Liberty International Airport) last night: twitpic.com/wks45To be honest, this isn't the usual scenario. Last night there was a "terminal dump" because a TSO was asleep on the job and let an unscreened pax go into the secure area through the Exit door. Everyone, including people already boarded on planes that hadn't taken off yet, had to be removed from the secure area and rescreened, after a wait of several hours for TSA to "find the culprit." There were so many people, some were forced to wait outside where it was 10 degrees without the wind chill factor! So any terrorist who observed what happened last night knows there is now no need to mess with sneaking WEI through security, or waste money on buying plane tickets when they are only going to blow themselves up in a suicide bombing. Nah, just send a confederate through the secure area exit and wait for the crowd to amass in the lobby. In fact, now that security lines will be much longer due to more intensive screening, never mind the "enter through the exit" tactic. TSA will probably be requesting their Exit Guards to stay awake on the job now anyway (unless they get unionized, then it won't be necessary). This would be funny if it weren't so sad. Someone said "Like a clown on fire."
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 4, 2010 8:12:08 GMT -5
Someone has wised up and ordered extra screening for people entering the US from 14 dubious countries - Countries of Dubeity? I haven't read details but this makes sense to me. It avoids the problem of profiling and simply says bad guys have tended to operate from bases in these countries. Ergo, everyone gets serious frisking - except that US citizens would be exempt from the extra attention. Of course, some US citizens have adopted traitorous associations (remember Walker, the poor crazed kid who joined al-Quaida?) but all the people involved in 9/11 with valid visas would presumably have been stopped with such a screening. Reports so far indicate US citizens traveling to/from/through the relevant countries will also be subject to search.Oh, wait. All those guys had were box cutters and the ability to fly jets. So it isn't just bombs we're worried about, K. Still, this would offer another line of defense. Remember that Red Team tests indicate that screeners today already miss 40 - 80% of guns and knives. I am skeptical about their ability to find more subtle weapons, though my personal experience indicates they do find my "explosive shampoo and hand sanitizer" about 20 - 30% of the time.
Oh, wait again. All the terrorists have to do is not bring anything into the country. They could still buy stuff for bombs and fly out, couldn't they? Or not try to explode a bomb on a plane, just switch to subway and train stations. The minute we think of something, the more Hydra heads pop up. The ways to fool the TSA are legion, and the terrorists can always think of another way, no matter what new "layer" TSA thinks up.BTW, that's why I agree that "War on Terror" was always a misnomer. There are no armies to defeat, no leaders to surrender to us, no one to sign a treaty with. There will never be an end. IMHO, the best way to minimize (no we can't end it) the "Global War on TerrorTM " is to quit "paying the ransom" - coming to a panicked halt that costs millions (in the case of the EWR terminal dump last night) or even billions (global wasted time and money on Theater entertainment instead of real security), every time some terrorist goes "Boo!"
Although the new policy to apply more intensive screening to those pax from certain countries makes a lot more sense than most TSA/DHS responses to date, there are still huge holes. When I go to Afghanistan (one of the 14 countries), TSA, CBP and INS will never know unless I tell them because the DXB-KBL-DXB tix are purchased separately in Dubai and are not part of my PNR (the flight record). The tix pretty much have to be purchased separately in Dubai, because they are sold by only a very few travel agents or the airlines themselves (KAM Airline, Ariana Afghan, or United Nations Humanitarian Air Services) that do not interface with other major airlines. No American authority has ever even appeared to notice my multi-entry Afghan and Pakistani visas on my passport; they are there for inspection even if my flight record doesn't reflect those nations in my itinerary. One can also travel overland to depart from another country that is not "on the list," if you prefer not to have your true origin revealed. And the planned increased use of WBI? Think about this. Every time there is an alarm by anyone using a sanitary pad, adult diaper, colostomy bag, breast prosthesis after mastectomy, the alarm will have to be "resolved" by a personal inspection (strip search). Ewwww!!
|
|
|
Post by gailkate on Jan 4, 2010 10:48:33 GMT -5
As a former member of several unions, I object. And I've never seen any TSA asleep, so I assume you mean not alert enough. It sounded as if the person just ducked under the rope and was lost in the crowd. Maybe we need actual barriers? They'd have to be high enough that kids wouldn't climb on them, but still low enough so passengers could see over. I'm thinking of conferences where several people from one company or specialty would be flying but not as an actual group.
But yes, anyone can blow up a bunch of people in an airport and that might become a sufficient score from the terrorists' point of view. Not everything has to be so dramatic as an exploding plane. It would be far easier just to skip airports and hit a mall. Most of the terrorist attacks in Middle Eastern countries target relatively small gatherings.
It's true the ways to fool TSA are legion, but you sound as if it's their fault for being fooled. Our side has to keep coming up with countermeasures, but we're not going to think of everything. I wonder if they do brainstorming on every level to try to stay ahead of the plots. If I were going to plan a jolting attack, I might go for the symbolism of a national monument when full of visitors or a rock concert full of infidels. The possibilities are just staggering.
I really see your reasoning about not making a theater event out of every threat, but when do you say "aw, forget it"? It seems to me they could have searched last night without bringing the whole terminal to a halt, holding people in planes and then making them get off to be screened again. But if it were my friend or husband who then got blown to smithereens, I wouldn't think a low-key response was at all defensible A whole lot of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I've wondered if my breast implants were the reason I was stopped in Detroit. The tiny metal tags aren't enough to trigger a metal detector, though, so what made them pull me out for the body scan?
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 4, 2010 12:00:46 GMT -5
I am a strong defender of many unions myself, having had some of the best as clients. I know that unions save lives (my patients' lives) in places like West Virginia coal mines. However, when you take an agency like TSA whose employees are already rarely held accountable for poor performance, and then add union "protection," I think it is a recipe for disaster.
There is plenty of blame to go around regarding those who are 'fooled" in security lapses, and much of it has nothing to do with TSA, as I mentioned in an earlier post on this topic. Let's direct money & attention to real security - as you suggested, putting one way doors or turnstyles at airport exits, and screening all cargo for explosives. How about a considered decision on screening for WEI, instead of relying on people like Michael Chertoff who abuse the public trust placed in them by touting the expensive brand that lines their pockets (but doesn't detect explosives).
If you haven't seen any TSOs sleeping on the job, and I , you probably just haven't been in the right place (near the exit while most people are entering) at the right time (after a big bank of flights has deplaned but the bank next hasn't begun). It is a boring job most of the time, and I have seen quite a few dozing. Here are a few photos (I didn't take them):
ETA: I couldn't make the links work, but you can find many pix of sleeping TSOs on photobucket; these that I wanted to post were from Dallas, DC, Boston, and Chicago, but I have seen such sleepers in most airports I frequent.
|
|
|
Post by gailkate on Jan 4, 2010 12:07:44 GMT -5
Reading about all the actions in Yemen, I started puzzling over what might be included in "al-Quaida in the Arab Peninsula." I wonder if they have networks in all those countries, and if they're including Somalia. Do we hear much about terrorists in Oman? Sorry this copied so big, but it does help to see the little countries enlarged. folbot.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/middle-east-map.jpgI'm deleting the map, as it screwed up everyone else's posts, too. But you can see it at that link.
|
|
|
Post by Jane on Jan 4, 2010 17:24:38 GMT -5
My younger daughter was in color guard for four years. Their band was nationally ranked, and band was a Big Deal. I remember her performing in snow and rain and her hands froze to the pole that her flag was affixed to. Gotta be dedicated! What doesn't kill band geeks, makes them strong!
|
|
|
Post by gailkate on Jan 4, 2010 19:47:35 GMT -5
I couldn't find photobucket images - probably searching wrong.
I think unions can protect incompetents to the extent of getting them due process, but it's always possible to fire somebody. I've done it. I've been a manager with no union but with a strong bias in favor of management, such that bullies and sexual harassers get off with a wrist slap. I've wrangled with the MN lawyers' "professional review board" and learned that a lawyer has to kill someone to be disbarred, maybe just maim someone to get a reprimand. The military protect their own. Even corporations have rules about just bouncing someone. My point is only that unions aren't the cause of abuses. If "the system" doesn't function, there are a lot of things going on. Giving TSA the right to negotiate a contract doesn't mean all TSA agents will goof off on the job. My experience - admittedly very limited - has been quite positive. The people on your travel forum must see a lot more unpleasant things simply because they travel so much, but it's not fair to smear every TSA agent.
Of course, if someone had snagged my collapsible cane I'd be pretty jaundiced. I wish you had filed a complaint and raised holy hell. But raising hell is a lot of work and time that most people don't have, so the slugs get away with being slimy invertebrates.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 4, 2010 21:55:07 GMT -5
I did file a complaint, with the TSO's "name" and ""badge number" (which I discovered were not real or actually linked to a specific employee at that time), but there was never any response. Letters to my federal representatives generated only a form letter response that had nothing to do with my letter (and I was on a first name basis with my Congressman in Washington State, so he or his LA always returned my calls on other matters). I have heard that more recently, the TSA has sometimes responded appropriately to complaints, but at that time, they were not.
That is far from my only reason for disliking the TSA (one bad apple would not spoil the barrel - it takes at least 3 bad experiences in my book), even though I agree that many, perhaps even most (more than 50% but not over 90%), do a good job. However, the agency has always been poorly managed and now after 8 years there is a thoroughly inbred culture of poor performance that will only be worsened by unionizing. The unions certainly don't cause the problems, but they definitely will do their job - vigorously protecting workers who have paid their union dues - but in this case it will protect the guilty. Meanwhile, passengers could die, as this airline security issue is serious business, truly a matter of life and death. I criticize the TSA because I take security seriously, as do most of us who fly frequently. We are the ones most likely to suffer when security fails, as we are on airplanes daily or weekly or monthly. It is easy for those who rarely fly to say "TSA is doing a great job. I have a neighbor who is a TSO and he/she is very nice. Anything for security is OK by me"
And then there is the issue of emergency response, which is Senator DeMint's alleged concern. I believe anti-Obama politics is the Senator's real concern, but that does not mean emergency response is no concern. When you have dedicated professionals like police officers, fire fighters, nurses and the like, they will reliably do a good job in any emergency with or without a union. Most TSO's mostly not dedicated professionals in my experience. Checkout internet bulletin boards where TSO's post and you will see that even within the organization, most responsible TSO's will say just what I have. They resent that their reputation is tarred by the foolishness and many slackers in their midst. Other government agency employees gape in amazement at the train wreck that is TSA, knowing they too can be unfairly tarred with the same brush.
It is very sad, this state of non-security. We are very lucky taht there has not been another 9/11 yet.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 4, 2010 22:14:21 GMT -5
//My younger daughter was in color guard for four years. Their band was nationally ranked, and band was a Big Deal. I remember her performing in snow and rain and her hands froze to the pole that her flag was affixed to. Gotta be dedicated! What doesn't kill band geeks, makes them strong! //
J ane, I think this belonged in the Tweet Tweet thread, but congrats anyway on being a successful "band mom." I have seen those salacious movies about band camp, and I am wondering if that also is an incentive for kids. Those that can't go to London to see the Queen of course, since I am sure that is a rare honor!
Is this the daughter that has become a successful dancer/teacher? Band geekery worked then.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 4, 2010 23:10:40 GMT -5
Let me try again on the photos of sleeping TSOs: i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/743bd/02kf74hs63vcmd4.jpgi29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/743bd7/93jd74hd62bs.jpgi29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/743bd7/k94hf73bd73.jpgi29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/743bd7/ko03bd84hd89.jpgI give up, I can't make a live link or successfully copy & paste these to my browser. So let me try a link to the FlyerTalk thread, and you can see the photos in post #189. Maybe that will work. I promise - there are photos there, and I have seen numerous sleeping TSOs with my very own eyes. To be honest, it's a boring job that would put anyone to sleep. I have seen them sleeping only at out-of-the-way times like when I am at the airport for something else besides exiting the plane, and I wander by the exit when there are very few other people/pax there. but they are still on the job, and they shouldn't be sleeping. Or yakking with other TSOs, or playing cards, or reading a book. Evil Doers will case the joint, observe the quiet times and sleeping guards, and seize the opportunity to slip into the secure area. I do not think the threat is imaginary, and I do believe we need airline security people who are diligent: www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1035084-terminal-dump-ewr-c-3-jan-2010-a-13.html
|
|
|
Post by hartlikeawheel on Jan 4, 2010 23:19:30 GMT -5
I'm tellin' ya, it's not the system that's broken. It's the peeps!
I'm a bit overwhelmed by the massive effort this country makes to prevent problems and only seems to succeed in complicating things.
Edit: Coulda said a bit more, I think. I'd like to see my country get back to the old-fashioned notion that the world is dangerous and living our lives is dangerous and that every human is ultimately responsible for taking his chances.
We've become so concerned for taking care of others that many seem to have forgotten how to take care of themselves.
Lord, I'm turning into a right-winger in my dotage!
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 5, 2010 8:18:18 GMT -5
Nah, you're just sounding like our Founding Fathers. If that is "right-wing," so be it:
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 (remember I am an alum of Ben Franklin Sr. H.S., New Orleans, LA - best school in the state)
|
|
|
Post by hartlikeawheel on Jan 5, 2010 13:06:24 GMT -5
Now that was a gracious thing to say, K. Have heard those quotes frequently online. Somehow I can't identify with our more vocal patriots these days. But our society's litigious tendencies have turned us into a group of fearful people, I think.
Seems we spend more time on figuring out who to blame than we do working on problem solving. Problem solving which must satisfy all facets of the political spectrum, no less. A fine impossibility.
Sometimes I just wanna say, "Gee whiz, suck it up, Folks!" (I learned that from some street folks and interpret it to mean that a certain degree of acceptance is in order.)
But somehow that doesn't sound much like Mr. Franklin, does it?
|
|
|
Post by gailkate on Jan 5, 2010 14:40:19 GMT -5
It doesn't sound like Franklin, but I bet he'd like it - maybe claim it as his own. Our Founding Fathers certainly had a way with words, but I also hail from the "better Red than dead" school. I do think life is dear and peace is sweet. Putting up with cumbersome and even stupid efforts at security is not the same as chains and slavery (which, btw, the Founding Fathers were not subjected to, no matter how eloquently they damned King George.) There was a great article from the LA Times in our paper this morning. www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/80661607.html?elr=KArksc8P:Pc:Ug8P:Pc:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr You may have read it already, Hart. It's spot-on, but he doesn't offer any suggestions for what might work better. Just grousing and blaming the TSA dullards. If they hadn't instituted shoe-screening, you can bet the baddies would have tried that again, just as they would try underwear and mixing the explosive under cover of a blanket. This last one almost worked! Our loved ones could have been on that plane. It's a miracle that so many of the tools of terrorist leaders are just incompetent kids.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 5, 2010 16:38:59 GMT -5
[raises hand and waves] I know. I know this one!
I usually admit I know very little history, but I am familiar with Virginia history, and Patrick Henry gave his speech in St. John's Church in Richmond (where I lived and attended med school), which still stands today as an active Episcopal church. I've attended re-enactments of Henry's speech there and they are very moving.
I think it's helpful to consider the speech in context - the Boston Tea Party in 1773 followed by repressive British Acts imposed upon the colonists, the First Continental Congress in 1774, and then in early 1775, Massachusetts began to prepare for war. The Brits then sent in their army and navy, and those are the "chains and slavery" to which Patrick Henry referred. His speech was given to persuade Virginia, the largest of the colonies, through its delegates at the meeting, to join in the American Revolution.
The colonies had already tried everything else, to no avail. Had his speech not been successful, there might have been no American Revolution, the course of the French Revolution (independence achieved on July 14, 1787), and probably WWII could have been quite different. It was a critically important speech and you may want to re-read it.
The correlation to today's situation (and I know just enough history to recognize the threat of repeating it) is that we now have an intrusive government that has: boldly wiretapped without warrants; attempted to seize library borrowing records when a patron in Whatcom County was suspected of reading & making notes on the Koran (gasp!); sent in the (former Secret Service) Head of Global Security and Head of CounterTerrorism to inhibit freedom of the press by cowing a blogger/reporter into giving up The Name of someone who forwarded a Security Directive that was sent to over 10,000 people worldwide; and now wants the equivalent of internal passports and unwarranted searches in order to board a plane. In the process, our government doesn't care if susceptible citizens are exposed to carcinogenic radiation from equipment that does not detect explosives, (so long as it lines the pockets of influential former Cabinet members) as it treads on our human dignity with impunity.
When Franklin said it's time to give up on obtaining safety even if it curtails our liberty, that's close enough to "Suck it up!" for me. Henry was saying "Hey peeps, don't be broken, get responsible!" For me, it's time to draw a line too - I want real security, not Theater.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 5, 2010 16:48:29 GMT -5
And here are some concrete suggestions for improvement, courtesy of bocastephen. Though I wouldn't call Secretary of DHS Janet Napolitano "an...idiot," (I suspect that she may be out of her league), otherwise I think they are pretty good set of ideas.
1. Fire Napolitano. She's an incompetent idiot. 2. Disband DHS - the experiment didn't work 3. Shakeup FBI, CIA, NSA and other intelligence agencies. Fire managers and decision makers involved in efforts to block or inhibit information sharing. 4. Assign a special unit of GAO to monitor and report on information sharing activities between intelligence agencies and their "customers" in other agencies, such as TSA, DOT, NRC, etc 5. Clean house at the TSA - eliminate the federal screening workforce, transition to licensed/certified contractors for screening pax and cargo, and re-dedicate the TSA (without its own budget) as unit of DOT to review and react to threat information from intelligence agencies, develop security policies 6. earmark a minimum percentage of collected 9/11 Security Fee revenue to the development and procurement of non-invasive screening devices which enhance both the effectiveness and efficiency of passenger and cargo screening without introducing exposure risks or privacy issues (I blueprinted just such a device at TS/S some time ago) 7. eliminate the entire no fly list as it exists right now. Rebuild it from scratch with names of people we actually don't want on flights, including other datapoints such as aliases, physical characteristics, known passports, etc. 8. work with ICAO [N.B. - International Civil Aviation Organization] to create standardized screening processes, technologies and other procedures to implement around the world. Fund implementation of these initiatives for countries that cannot afford them, block air travel or passengers from airports/airlines that do not adhere to ICAO standards 9. stop the security theatrics - eliminate "look good, feel good" processes and procedures that do not add to security effectiveness 10. LEAD by teaching Americans that life comes with risk. Nothing we do is riskless; not eating, sleeping, driving, shopping or traveling. Get people to understand and accept that risk will always exist and train them to be stronger and more resilient. Something WILL happen. People need to grow a set and learn to clean up, mourn and move on without allowing their entire way of life to come crashing down in a wall of panic and anguish
Bottom line - the failures we've experience, from Oklahoma City to USS Cole to WTC to 9/11 and beyond can be traced to one central theme - a total lack of effort by the intelligence apparatus to share and act on threat information - allowing the smallest of cracks to grow into wide caverns that we only find out about after someone tries something.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 5, 2010 17:52:01 GMT -5
Michael Chertoff, former Secretary DHS, will be on Larry King Live tonight on CNN. The website has a function where (potential) viewers can send in their questions. I submitted "How will TSA resolve the WBI positive screen alarms?"
Someone else had already asked the conflict of interest question and the safety question about unknown effects of repeated low doses of radiation (known carcinogen in "regular" doses) over time, as well as the one about "Why not use equipment or methods that detect explosives, since backscatter X-ray and millimeter wave radio waves do not detect explosives?"
I will watch, and I would like to hear his answers. Naturally I am especially interested in what he would recommend be done to resolve alarms in people wearing adult diapers, sanitary napkins, penile implants, colostomy bags, etc.
|
|
|
Post by gailkate on Jan 5, 2010 18:37:57 GMT -5
I love American history and actually know quite bit, so don't get me going. Actually, I can't get going about anything. I seem to have wrenched my dicey back and will repair to a heating pad. But bocastephen's list of suggestions is pretty broad and general. Efforts to change the intel smokestacks have been pursued since at least the 9/11 Commission's report, and I'm sure Obama has come down hard on pursuing them with renewed vigah. I'm kind of impatient with people who scream and holler about how heads should roll, etc, etc. That's all very well - and certainly not unique to bocastephen. Does he think these ideas are his alone? But what about now? What should we have to do before getting on a plane?
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 5, 2010 20:52:13 GMT -5
Of course you have me beat on most any aspect of American history! I know a little about Patrick Henry only because 1) it happened in Virginia where I had a whole year of VA history, and 2) I went to med school in Richmond and sometimes attended St. John's Church.
Security has very little to do with what passengers bring on the plane, and everything to do with what happens globally before that. That is why what you see is "Security Theater." Some of Bocastephen's ideas have been brought up before (except #6, and #8 has not been widely disseminated), even by estimable experts, but no one has paid attention or put them all together except in the widely ignored 9/11 Commission Report.
And of course you it is impossible for you to know "What should I do before getting on the plane?" because even if you read the TSA website, many of the "rules" are secret and not posted there (That is what the whole "redacted document" business was about). Or, the TSO makes them up as they go, aka, "Uses discretion." See yesterday's report of a TSO taking away a child's Play-Doh, which was a Christmas present from his Grandma, and is explicitly allowed on the TSA website. Since what you (like 99.99999% of pax) bring on the plane has little to do with security, and the other 0.0000009% can only be found by other methods, it doesn't really matter anyway.
All you (or anyone) really "need" to do before getting on the airplane is exactly what was done on 9/10/2001 - get your bag X-rayed and walk through the metal detector. No rules were broken on 9/11 and the only effective changes since 9/11 are reinforced cockpit doors and crew and passenger awareness.
Effective methodology suggestions he and other reiterate, but they are ignored: screening all cargo, screening all who enter the secure area, etc. Not effective - $7 billion on the current system when it could be used for real security
TSA posts a "body count" each week on its website:
* 28 passengers were arrested after investigations of suspicious behavior or fraudulent travel documents * 12 firearms found at checkpoints * 4 artfully concealed prohibited items found at checkpoints * 24 incidents that involved a checkpoint closure, terminal evacuation or sterile area breach
Translation - 28 college students with fake ID's so they can drink; 12 firearms forgotten their suitcase/briefcase, or paperwork for legal firearms filed incorrectly (like 50 - 60% of carry-on guns, they were found and removed); 4 artfully concealed objects such as chapstick/toothpaste/hand lotion/Purell was in pax' pockets; 24 "incidents at the checkpoint" - like what happened at EWR only not as bad.
If any of these bodies counted had been of any significance whatsoever, there would have been a press release trumpeting it.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 6, 2010 9:31:02 GMT -5
The Larry King Live Show was all softball discussion, no serious discussion.
Yesterday's speech by Obama following his "Come to Jesus" meeting with all his security people was interesting mainly because Obama seemed to be truly angry to "discover" that our national security has a lot of holes in it, and there appears to be a grave lack of communication between the many right arms and left arms.
I suppose that is a start, but let's see what significant changes he & his people propose when it comes down to brass tacks and actual suggestions. Then maybe your question will be answered, gk. My question is on a different level - not what can I carry on the airplane (that will never really be answered because of the unaccountable nature of TSA and its TSOs, and the fact that, other than guns/knives, it doesn't matter), but "What will our government really do to try to prevent terrorism events on airplanes and elsewhere?"
I can check bags if I have to, or buy toothpaste at my destination - but only if I actually arrive there.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 6, 2010 10:37:55 GMT -5
The morning news shows had several features on the "news" about Sunday's terminal dump at Newark Airport:
The security breach was not noticed by TSO at the exit, it was reported by a conscientious passenger who observed the breach and was responsible enough to tell the authorities. (I wonder if thugs with subpoenas were sent to his home?)
TSA security cameras weren't working (this in the airport from which a doomed 9/11 plane took off!), so they could not review the incident. TSA had to ask Continental Airlines if they could look at Continental's security films. The request to Continental went though the "usual channels" at TSA, which took more than 2 hours,
Therefore the search for "the perp" did not begin until more than 2 hours after the breach occurred, by which time the perp was long gone. Review of Continental's films showed the perp left the airport 20 minutes after the breach. Costly airline disruptions continued nationwide for another 18 hours.
All of this was reported on the FlyerTalk website by Monday morning, yet the "news story" breaks on Wednesday.
Folks, do you really want your life and the safety of the US airline industry dependent upon either 1) narrow escapes from in-flight catastrophe, thanks to passengers not professionals, or 2) internet bloggers.
Do you really feel safe knowing that the same security gaps likely exist in our water supply, power grid, shipping lanes, sports stadia, shopping malls, school events, Mardi Gras parades, 4th of July celebrations?
|
|
|
Post by BoatBabe on Jan 7, 2010 2:25:10 GMT -5
Oh My. Yes. I feel as safe as I ever have, not being one who generally expects those people out there to guarantee my protection at parades, sports stadiums or from myself. All of this screeching, wing flapping and fear-mongering talk does get tiresome. I Did see by the news that there is a new book called "The Checklist Manifesto." I apologize for not remembering the author's name. You all are Googled In. Look it up. Forgive me if my paraphrases are not actual quotes. The gentleman who wrote the book is a surgeon. He started comparing pilots with surgeons, and realized a connection among "experts" in many different venues. Pilots have checklists. When Mr. Sully landed the plane in the Hudson River and was touted as a Hero, he rebuked the label, siting Teamwork and Following Protocol as the true saving graces. The author drew up a checklist for surgical teams, and presented it to several hospital crews to try. The checklist was simple, maybe two minutes long, and included preoperative items such as Make sure there are enough supplies of blood and antibiotics. My favorite was Does everyone know the names of the people they are working with? Apparently people who operate together are much more likely to speak up when things take a sudden turn south if people know each other's names. The original acceptance of the surgical checklist was just as we expect from experts, authoritarian figures and people who are not used to having their judgement questioned: This is a waste of time; we already do this; this is a "pain in the butt" (and that IS a quote.) After a period of time working with the surgical checklist, the surgical workers were polled. 80% liked the list and intended to keep it. The numbers also attested to the productivity, accuracy and decline in "incidents" attributed to using the list. 20% still had the "It's a pain in the butt" attitude. Yet when these same people were asked, "If YOU were having surgery, would you want this checklist to be used in your surgical suite," 95% said YES. The author describes eloquently and persuasively the value of the checklists in many different avenues of life. I thought it was interesting. We are going through many different protocol changes at work due to new government mandates, new computer systems, new product offerings and new instruments. I'm working on checklists. It is a effective, productive step toward managing our work lives together. Of course, checklists are a must at home, too. We Never start the engines without doing our Marine Checklist, and we follow protocol always while cruising. (I did lose some stuff from the countertop this last cruise, but I take Full Responsibility for not clearing All Counters Before Cruising.)
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 7, 2010 10:02:37 GMT -5
//Yes. I feel as safe as I ever have, not being one who generally expects those people out there to guarantee my protection at parades, sports stadiums or from myself.//
Stand up and cheer! Life offers no guarantee of safety.
But if I pay taxes for government security functions, I would like them to do what they say they are doing, and are paid to do. Since recognizing that there is a problem is critical, I listened to Obama's speech about NW#253, and it was so refreshing to hear a government official to say:
"We screwed up. We had all the information we needed to stop this guy, and we didn't do it. That's unacceptable, and we are going to change and fix it."
That's what finally happened in hospitals, BB. The airline pilot checklist concept was ported over to hospitals - first in the Operating Room, and then elsewhere. There was a "100,000 Lives Campaign," aiming to make specific patient safety changes that would save 100,000 lives. It was very successful, and has now been expanded to more areas, and more lives have been saved.
I find that when someone asks me casually at a party or the grocery store, "Say doc, I have this problem/rash/pain, could you take a look at it?" It is best for me to respond, "Sure come see me in the office." People might assume that is for money, but in the office, vital signs are taken, and the chart lists patient allergies, medications, medical history, etc. I have a routine so I don't forget something important or prescribe penicillin when they are allergic.
The point is that we are ultimately responsible for ourselves - as has been proven recently when pax or FlyerTalkers are the ones to intervene when the government is not doing what it is supposed to do regarding airline security. But sometimes expert assistance should be brought in, and when it is available, and we are paying for it, we should use it.
Regarding airline safety, use the techniques and information which are effective, not just what looks good to the occasional traveler at the checkpoint. I had always hoped that there was serious security going on behind the lines, since I can see that 50,000 TSOs removing shampoo and Play-Doh is sheer foolishness. Now I know that there is not much behind the lines, and I personally cannot track who goes to Yemen to learn terrorism. So I am relieved that Obama has realized that this is unacceptable and he will see that is fixed. (I hope.)
|
|
|
Post by gailkate on Jan 7, 2010 10:27:15 GMT -5
I didn't mean that I wonder personally what to take on a plane. I meant that as a national "We" and wonder what all the critics think we should do - say, tomorrow. Stop checking shoes? Stop controlling - or trying to - liquids and gels? It's the nitty gritty of what got left on BB's counter that is critical and yet so easy to deride after the fact.
I've already whined about my back, so you know i can't write at length or coherently. But the problem is so huge and so open to armchair quarterbacking that I despair.
Could be that vigilant passenger was over-vigilant and brought a major airport to a halt over nothing. In truth, there was no danger. Maybe the person had escorted his granny to a place in line where she could be left to go on alone and then ducked into an exit line so he could retrieve his car from expensive short-term parking. Maybe TSA folks are kept so busy looking at 3 oz. containers that no one is assigned simply to scanning for anomalies.
The Israeli ambassador to the US said yesterday that their screeners are trained to watch body language, facial expression, etc. Not racial profiling but psychological profiling. sounds good abut very scary, too. When I'm stressed I get a little tic under my left eye - sure sign of murderous intent?
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 7, 2010 14:18:45 GMT -5
I didn't mean that I wonder personally what to take on a plane. I meant that as a national "We" and wonder what all the critics think we should do - say, tomorrow. Stop checking shoes? Stop controlling - or trying to - liquids and gels? It's the nitty gritty of what got left on BB's counter that is critical and yet so easy to deride after the fact. The personal is political, and "your" personal dilemma is the same as the global dilemma, whether it is you or the traveling public as a whole. Nobody knows what the rules are, which is why there were FOIA requests for TSA to publish "the rules." We meant the checkpoint rules, but TSA published the management rules.
I've already whined about my back, so you know i can't write at length or coherently. But the problem is so huge and so open to armchair quarterbacking that I despair. PM sent - hope you are better soon!Could be that vigilant passenger was over-vigilant and brought a major airport to a halt over nothing. In truth, there was no danger. Maybe the person had escorted his granny to a place in line where she could be left to go on alone and then ducked into an exit line so he could retrieve his car from expensive short-term parking. Maybe TSA folks are kept so busy looking at 3 oz. containers that no one is assigned simply to scanning for anomalies. Ding, ding, ding!! IMHO, this highlighted portion is the correct answer. AFAIK there is little science behind the 3.4 ounce limit, and while busy hunting down containers of 3.5 ounces, TSA misses half of the guns and knives.I don't think the passenger reporting the violation was over-vigilant. I am not against security, and I really do not want any unscreened people in the secure area, so I thank that alert passenger, and hope the brou-ha-ha that ensued does not dissuade the next passenger who might be reporting the terrorist who wants to explode my plane. The Israeli ambassador to the US said yesterday that their screeners are trained to watch body language, facial expression, etc. Not racial profiling but psychological profiling. sounds good abut very scary, too. When I'm stressed I get a little tic under my left eye - sure sign of murderous intent? The Israeli "screeners" are actually security professionals with a minimum of 2 - 3 years of military experience, followed by 2 or more years of additional training (that is my understanding, I don't know for sure, as Israel does not publish details). I agree, their methods are very effective for Lod Airport in Israel, but I am not at all sure their methods would work in the US.
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 7, 2010 14:22:08 GMT -5
Here is an excellent summary of the state of security today, courtesy of us2. Very well-stated, especially appreciated by those of us who remember all those "duck and cover" drills we did in elementary school.
//Terrorists win with the current mentality because we allow ourselves to be terrorized. I shudder to think what this country would do if it was faced with REAL terror, such as was faced by Britain circa 1940-45.
This nation survived 40-odd years with the very real prospect of a nuclear holocaust that would have caused an unimaginable level of death and destruction. Somehow, we managed to cope with that and to do so in a manner that, generally but not completely, did not gut our Constitution and basic values. Yet, when confronted with a handful of lunatic fanatics who lack the ability to destroy us, we seem hell-bent on destroying ourselves with a response that is completely out of proportion to the threat we face and, in the process, wreak a level of violence on our basic values that tens of thousands of Soviet nuclear warheads could not do.
At the beginning of the new Administration, I had hoped that we might finally find a calmer approach to dealing with terrorism that put it into a proper perspective as a risk to our lives. The response of the past few weeks would seem to indicate that my hope was misplaced. The hand-wringing and bed-wetting over terrorism continues, which is a sad state of affairs indeed.//
|
|
|
Post by doctork on Jan 9, 2010 19:19:25 GMT -5
Amidst the clamor of "Anything for security," has anyone considered this sort of decision? Not only the developmentally disabled adults are affected, but also the autistic kids, toddlers who can't obey directions, mildly demented grandparents, those with Alzheimers - all of these will suffer too. This is from a FlyerTalker:
//I belong to an association that works with developmentally disabled adults. Many of our clients wear Depends or depend on implanted devices for their survival.
We normally take our clients on a nice trip once a year, often going by air. We have determined that we will no longer travel by air if it means our clients will have to pass through a body scanner or subject themselves to an invasive physical screening. Why? Because they cannot give truly informed consent to such procedures. It's been bad enough trying to get them to understand that they have to remove their shoes and they can't take that beloved can of Coke with them through a checkpoint, but trying to explain why they have to go into a box and hold their hands in the air or have a stranger feel them up has been the final straw.
Thank you so very much, TSA. You have diminished the quality of life for disabled people.//
|
|