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Post by doctork on Nov 8, 2012 22:44:31 GMT -5
Quickly....it wasn't a check-off box. It was a space to fill in. It's a constant here. There were "demonstrations" or a "riot," depending on your point of view, at Ole Miss Tuesday night when the election was final. Hmmm, I've never lived in Mississippi and it is one of the states I have done very little work in, so I don't know why they require you fill in your race when most other forms offer check boxes or the option to decline. Maybe a response to the history of racial discrimination in the state, a corrective measure like school busing requirements or political redistricting guidelines? I think the events at Ole Miss aptly illustrate the fact that racism is still rampant in the deep south. Laws and regs attempt to remediate prior discrimination, so yes I s'pose it's reverse discrimination. I like what one of my patients said to me. He is CNO (Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma) while most of our patients are Navajo due to our location, but we serve any Native American, including this gentleman. He said he prefers to list his race/ethnicity as "Earthian." Maybe you should put that in the blank next time! ;-) I'm into policy not politics, but I suspect the current emphasis on demographics occurs because both political parties want to see how they can do better next time, and there were clearly major demographic differences in how people voted. Ultimately I hope such analysis leads to better policy.
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Post by joew on Nov 8, 2012 23:18:37 GMT -5
It's true that (most) people have to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes to get the benefits, but I believe that in general the benefit exceeds the taxes paid. so there is definitely an element of handout involved. If there weren't, people would be content just to forgo the benefits and keep the money.
Other handouts include education grants, food stamps, pork barrel projects, agricultural subsidies, and who knows what-all else. This is not to say that none of them have merit, just that it becomes extremely difficult for a politician to propose limiting them or reforming them because of an impending fiscal crisis when there is an opponent ready to shout, "He wants to cut your [social security/medicare/tuition grant/farm subsidy etc.]," rather than engage in a serious discussion of how much we need to pay to whom and how much we can afford to pay.
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Post by gailkate on Nov 9, 2012 1:15:44 GMT -5
Joe, the argument that most people's benefits exceed what they paid in is tricky to respond to. After all, people paid what they were required to pay (and there was never an option of keeping the money and forgoing benefits). If Congress failed to adjust to inflation and longer lives, people can't be blamed for failing to contribute enough to cover current costs. Certainly the word "handout' is inflammatory, grossly insulting and unjust.
I don't know the complexities of federal employees' pensions and healthcare contributions. Do you think you're getting handouts? I do think it's troubling that a non-working spouse still gets a percentage (is it half?) of the spouse's Soc. Sec. payment while that spouse is still alive. I'm also troubled by the benefit to children if a parent dies. That harks back to the time when only men worked outside the home. Right now, hundreds of thousands of working moms must struggle if their kids' deadbeat dads fail to pay support. I would have been far far better off if my father had died.
Yes, it will be hard to solve the inequities. I believe deductions for contributions to churches and opera companies and museums should stop. No church or private school/college should be tax exempt. Only contributions to initiatives that directly help the needy and ill should be deductible. Not pew cushions or building funds or salaries - like everything else, non-profits should be run like a business. I can be really tough about this.
One more stat on the vote. 39% of the white electorate voted for Obama. 39%
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Post by doctork on Nov 9, 2012 11:19:49 GMT -5
Since Social Security has a "floor" or minimum monthly benefit, it is progressive in that lower income individuals receive a benefit that replaces a higher proportion of their income. So they get back more than they paid in, while higher income individuals will receive less than they put in; should balance out.
Should beneficiaries be held accountable for Congressional actuarial errors when funding is now found to be inadequate? Maybe not, but then why should the current workers have to pay higher taxes to cover that? Not saying this is my personal opinion, but it is a strong argument on the part of conservatives. But if SS taxes were withheld on all income instead of "only" the first $110,000 (as is the case with Medicare tax), that would eliminate 75% of the shortfall.
Widowers and widows with children under age 18 (up to 22 for those in college) will receive benefits based on a deceased spouse's income, gender neutral AFAIK. Social Security was not intended or budgeted to replace income lost due to dead beat dads - the remedy for that is through the court system, imperfect though it may be.
Eliminating charitable deductions for churches and museums will raise very little tax revenue (amounts are generally small), but would probably be fairly easy. However, the big money in tax revenue would be generated by eliminating the deductions for home mortgage interest and for employer-sponsored health insurance, which is effectively tax-free income to the employee, while deductible as a business expense to the employer. Such a change would be very unpopular.
Families' college expenses that are favorably tax-treated now would entail the additional "cost" (beyond additional tax) of requiring states to make up the difference (since 90% of college students attend state not private schools), or else the cost of a less educated work force. Still, 2 - 4 years of college tuition per child is a time-limited expense while health insurance costs are life-long, and mortgage deductions are "30 years." Effective but very unpopular, and would likely require a 20 - 30 year phase in, which is why it's hard.
I am always reminded of John Donne: "As the islands of knowledge expand so do the shorelines of ignorance." You answer one question and a dozen more difficult ones pop up. Plus there are all those unintended consequences.
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Post by joew on Nov 9, 2012 11:34:32 GMT -5
Perhaps I should have put the word "handout" in quotes in my earlier post. I considered it the shorthand term we were using to refer to moneys that people got from government.
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Post by doctork on Nov 9, 2012 20:23:12 GMT -5
Perhaps I should have put the word "handout" in quotes in my earlier post. I considered it the shorthand term we were using to refer to moneys that people got from government. Though the money may be "handed out" by the government, the funds come from money that was "handed in" by the people, minus the handling or laundering costs, plus the factor of a possibly interest-free loan to the federal government since the SS and MC tax funds go into "reserve" funds that have been used to appear to lessen the federal deficit. I like to keep in mind a distinction between those benefits for which a "premium" has been paid (Social Security and Medicare), and those benefits which are needs-based and thus not covered by a premium paid directly by recipients (Medicaid, Food Stamps, TANF, etc). Most recipients have at some time paid a "premium" (or a tax, I do think in insurance terms) for these benefits, or have had it paid for them if they are unable to do so. I've been pondering the 39% figure. Whites constitute 72% of the electorate. Obama received 80% of the non-white vote, including 73% of the Asian vote, 93% of the black vote, and a majority of the Hispanic vote though I forget the number at the moment; Romney received only 27% of the Hispanic vote, a decrease from GWB's 41% or McCain's 38%. Among registered voters nationally, 40% identify as Independents, 31% Democratic, and 27% Republican. I don't have the figures directly on hand, but I know that the Republican Party is majority white, and non-whites are more likely to be Democratic. So, is the 39% of white voters for Obama disproportionately low or does it reflect the party distribution? I suspect this varies hugely by state. This sounds like an 8th grade algebra problem, you know how the train leaves Chicago at 8 am traveling 50 mph...alternatively I'll wait for CSM to publish an impartial in-depth analysis. I think there is some disproportion, but it is not a nearly two-fold difference of 72% vs 39%.
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Post by booklady on Nov 10, 2012 9:52:07 GMT -5
What is CSM?
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Post by booklady on Nov 10, 2012 13:10:10 GMT -5
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Post by doctork on Nov 10, 2012 18:03:10 GMT -5
CSM = Christian Science Monitor, a weekly news magazine.
I've subscribed for nearly 40 years and find it to have the most in-depth and impartial news coverage, and by far the best international news coverage of any US publication. It is published by the Christian Scientist Church but aside from a weekly religious editorial (so labeled and not portrayed as news), it is non-religious and non-partisan. The writers do analytical pieces rather than straight "latest news" since it is a weekly, so they cover how and why something happened, not just the event itself.
I like Brooks and Shields too, BoatBabe. It is so rare these days to see civil discussion among those of differing opinions. I cannot respect those who are so certain that they are absolutely correct and everyone else who differs even slightly is evil. Not to mention, stupid and wrong. Then if their side loses they hope the winner fails (hey this is our nation you want to fail!?), I guess so they can go "Nyah nyah I told you so."
I suppose so long as the birther business gains attention and news coverage, it will go on. After all, Sheriff Joe Arpaio recently spent more than $10,000 of tax payer money to go investigate the "forgery" personally in Honolulu and he was re-elected.
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Post by booklady on Nov 11, 2012 9:41:58 GMT -5
Christian Science Monitor. Of course. I knew that! With regard to "nyah nyah, I told you so!" one aspect of Diana West's page that intrigued me was that stuff along the right (heh heh) side about the word "teenager" and its relatively recent entree into the lexicon. I didn't know that before. Here is (IMO) an interesting letter to the editor published in our paper today: A history lesson
At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years ago: “A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back into bondage.”
The bell is tolling loud and clear and it tolls for America.
Sue Tolbert Vicksburg
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Post by BoatBabe on Nov 11, 2012 9:55:23 GMT -5
Christian Science Monitor. Of course. I knew that! With regard to "nyah nyah, I told you so!" one aspect of Diana West's page that intrigued me was that stuff along the right (heh heh) side about the word "teenager" and its relatively recent entree into the lexicon. I didn't know that before. Here is (IMO) an interesting letter to the editor published in our paper today: A history lesson
At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years ago: “A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back into bondage.”
The bell is tolling loud and clear and it tolls for America.
Sue Tolbert Vicksburg
Wow, BL! That letter has a very strong message. I can feel the familiarity. The deal is, WE think we can change that.
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Post by doctork on Nov 11, 2012 13:34:29 GMT -5
I am hoping that previous empires did not have the historical perspective or the self-awareness to realize their path to downfall; perhaps since we can recognize the familiar path, we will take steps to avoid it.
It seems both of our major parties are into government giveaways, though the alleged recipients may look different. Democrats purportedly offer giveaways of welfare, food stamps and Medicaid. Republicans purportedly offer giveaways of tax breaks and lax regulatory enforcement to Big Business. Both parties have PACs that receive very large donations from individuals hoping to purchase - what? - access, the government they want.
Since politicians of both parties want mainly to get re-elected, it's a difficult cycle to change. It does seem that most voters seem to realize that taxes need to rise and spending needs to be cut. Will WE be able to effect those changes?
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Post by booklady on Nov 11, 2012 18:18:03 GMT -5
Hmmm. The original quote may or may not be real. Seems just a little too pat, doesn't it? Although evidently the real Alexander Fraser Tytler didn't seem too keen on democracies. www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.aspen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytlerand www.lewrockwell.com/north/north484.htmlwhich concludes: I can do no better than to close with a citation from Chapter 18 of Ludwig von Mises's book, Socialism (1922).
"The barren dispute over the economic life of the nations of antiquity shows how easily such classifying may lead to our mistaking the shadow of scholastic word-splitting for the substance of historical reality. For sociological study the stage theories are useless. They mislead us in regard to one of the most important problems of history — that of deciding how far historical evolution is continuous. The solution of this problem usually takes the form either of an assumption, that social evolution — which it should be remembered is the development of the division of labor — has moved in an uninterrupted line, or by the assumption that each nation has progressed step-by-step over the same ground. Both assumptions are beside the point. It is absurd to say that evolution is uninterrupted when we can clearly discern periods of decay in history, periods when the division of labor has retrogressed. On the other hand, the progress achieved by individual nations by reaching a higher stage of the division of labor is never completely lost. It spreads to other nations and hastens their evolution." It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: "Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote." The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor. But there is no law of historical decline that says that people cannot change their minds.
Changing minds is what education is all about. So is evangelism. Neither progress nor decline is guaranteed by some internal logic of society. Logic is what people use to interpret and then change society. There is no such thing as social logic.
October 21, 2006
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Post by joew on Nov 11, 2012 18:56:31 GMT -5
A few days ago I saw the quote about the lifespan of republics attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville, and I posted it somewhere. Whoever the author is, I think there is something to the idea that voters are easily inclined to vote for candidates who promise them monetary benefits of one sort or another.
Elsewhere, I came across a comment that the ability of a people to maintain an ordered democratic republic depends on their character and shared virtues.
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Post by doctork on Nov 11, 2012 19:05:23 GMT -5
I've read numerous accounts of a pattern in the decline of empires and though "voting themselves goodies" may be too pat, I still see a pattern, albeit a different one.
Empires grow too big and far-flung to manage and then decline, still warning to the current US "empire." As we become involved in more wars, police actions, spread of democracy, demonstrating American exceptionalism, whatever you want to call it, we may grow too big for our britches and enter into inevitable decline.
I read recently (cannot recall where, nor that the cite corroborated what I had read elsewhere) that the US has military installations in 132 countries globally. What are we doing in all those nations? Do we need to devote 20% of the total budget to all that, when we have failing bridges and other infrastructure here at home?
And as for those costly (and potentially trimmable) tax deductions I mentioned earlier, I found a listing of the tax dollar value in last weekend's WSJ:
Health care - $200 billion Savings incentives (pensions, 401k, IRAs) - $135 billion Dividends and capital gains - $93 billion Mortgage interest deductions - $84 billion State income, sales and propertyl tax deductions - $47 billion Charitable donations - $40 billion
The WSJ noted that since many Americans have had their retirement savings knocked out recently, Congress may be less eager to eliminate that deduction, but the others are all on the table.
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Post by booklady on Nov 14, 2012 17:34:43 GMT -5
So, I find myself just fascinated by the Petraeus story, especially the Broadwell-Kelley part. What a strange woman Broadwell seems to be!! David Brooks sorta surprises me with his views expressed here: opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/war-and-peeps/?ref=opinionIn other news, I LOVED the president's final answer at the press conference today to the reporter who hollared out a question at the end. ;D Classroom management of adolescent types at its masterful best!
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Post by joew on Nov 14, 2012 21:27:54 GMT -5
The timing of the resignation, after the long silence, certainly makes it look politically motivated.
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Post by gailkate on Dec 6, 2012 11:15:46 GMT -5
Many of you may have heard the NPR story this morning on Syrian refugees. This is a miserable situation in a myriad of miserable situations, but I want to try to do at least a little. These people fled during smmer and have no warm clothes. The kids were wearing flip-flops, for God's sake. I had no idea the cold and damp in Syria could be so bad . Children have frozen to death.
The reporter said foreign aid has been lacking and private donations can't keep up. So I'm going to write all my Congress people and also donate to Save the Children. I can't find the thread where we talked about good charities and the organization Joe mentioned that sends tents. People haven't nearly enough tents, so what little they've scraped together is always wet. Joe, can you tell me that name again?
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Post by joew on Dec 6, 2012 11:43:44 GMT -5
It's ShelterBox, www.shelterboxusa.org/So far they don't seem to be in Syria. You might want to keep an eye on their "deployments" and "news" pages on their website. Another organization that helps — mostly with medical supplies — in disaster areas is AmeriCares. www.americares.org/ A search for Syria on their website shows that they have sent relief.
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Post by gailkate on Dec 6, 2012 20:25:08 GMT -5
Thanks, Joe. We've had a family financial conference and decided on Save the Children and Americares. It seems as if there's no way to meet every need, but every little bit helps. I've been focused on the gift and treat bags I do for my favorite charity here, while little kids have no shoes to wear in icy mud. It's heartbreaking.
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Post by gailkate on Feb 7, 2013 20:50:21 GMT -5
Yikes! Watch out, Joe, and maybe Lirio!
Major U.S. airlines have canceled 2,933 flights ahead of what could be a historic blizzard in the Northeast on Friday. Forecasters expect a wintry blast churning across the nation and a cold front barreling up the East Coast to converge and dump as much as a foot of snow in New York and up to 3 feet in Boston. They also warn of potential white-out conditions across the region. The most severe weather is expected to hit Massachusetts on Friday between 2 and 5 p.m.
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Post by BoatBabe on Feb 7, 2013 23:24:24 GMT -5
Yikes! Watch out, Joe, and maybe Lirio! Major U.S. airlines have canceled 2,933 flights ahead of what could be a historic blizzard in the Northeast on Friday. Forecasters expect a wintry blast churning across the nation and a cold front barreling up the East Coast to converge and dump as much as a foot of snow in New York and up to 3 feet in Boston. They also warn of potential white-out conditions across the region. The most severe weather is expected to hit Massachusetts on Friday between 2 and 5 p.m. I'm with you, gk! Watch Out, our Dear Friends on the East Coast!!!
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Post by joew on Feb 8, 2013 15:25:23 GMT -5
Yikes! Watch out, Joe, and maybe Lirio! … The most severe weather is expected to hit Massachusetts on Friday between 2 and 5 p.m. When they say "to hit Massachusetts" they mean that in the sense of "to begin to be felt in Massachusetts." As of now, just after 3 p.m., we have maybe a eighth of an inch glazing of snow. The highway department is doing their durndest to keep ahead of it with salting and plowing. I've got haddock for tonight, steak for tomorrow, chicken drumsticks for Sunday, plenty of eggs, bacon, and veggies in the fridge and ice cubes in the freezer. So I should be fine unless the electricity goes out or the roof collapses or the big old tree in the sidewalk falls down and does damage. I wanted to get tomorrow's newspapers when I bought today's, just in case I can't get to the store tomorrow morning. Unfortunately they hadn't been delivered yet.
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Post by joew on Mar 13, 2013 22:05:42 GMT -5
Well, very few people saw that coming. I'm still trying to get to know who Pope Francis is, but from initial reports, it sounds as if things won't be exactly business as usual at the Vatican. I don't know exactly what he'll change, but someone who cooked his own meals and rode the bus to his office as archbishop is almost sure to change a few things.
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Post by doctork on Mar 13, 2013 23:33:07 GMT -5
I think it is very exciting, and I am not even Catholic. Yes, eschewing the Archbishop's residence in Buenos Aires in favor of a modest apartment and taking the bus to work leads me to suspect things will change a bit. I don't begrudge the Church and The Vatican their treasures and I thank them for preserving them over the millennia, but when I visited the Vatican last August/September, it struck me that the people who work there probably do not have a lot of contact with beggars, the hungry or AIDS victims and other sick people.
I have seen globally the good work in terms of education and healthcare done by the Roman Catholic church, and nowhere more remarkable than in South American. Pope Francis sounds like someone who feels the Church should pay attention to the poor, the sick and the needy.
I happened to be home for lunch when the Pope's identity and new name were announced, and he made his first appearance. He seemed modest but charming, and I applaud the dedication to social justice he has apparently shown in Argentina. And to name a Pope from Latin America - that is historic.
Since Pope Francis I has "come out of the blue," we'll learn a lot more in the coming days.
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Post by booklady on Mar 14, 2013 6:42:34 GMT -5
I was shocked that he was chosen so quickly. It's a fascinating choice, regionally and personality-wise (some things about him make me think of Calif. Gov. Jerry Brown in the early 70s -- sorry Joe!) And I like his new name very much.
He's another Pope who enters the office at a fairly advanced age, however, isn't he? What are Catholics saying about that, Joe?
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Post by joew on Mar 14, 2013 11:21:44 GMT -5
Definitely, he has had much more of a focus on the poor than any Pope I'm aware of. I presume he won't lose that as Pope.
I haven't heard much about the age issue. The priest at Mass this morning said, "You're never too old," adding that at least one can pray, as Pope Emeritus Benedict chose to do. As for Francis holding the office, I guess the Cardinals figured that he'd be good as long as he lasts, and they were all aware that if his strength declines, he can always follow Benedict. As I write this, it occurs to me that this could very well be a transitional papacy, as several other recent ones have been — John XXIII calling the council, with all that brought about; Paul VI abandoning some of the more elaborate Renaissance monarchical trappings such as the tiara and sedia gestatoria, and traveling around the world; John Paul I being affable and media friendly; John Paul II solidifying the travel; Benedict XVI writing books and going on Twitter. After John XXIII, these have been innovations in the way the papacy works, rather than innovations in the Church itself. I suppose we'll see more such innovations in the papacy with Pope Francis, but I think that, more importantly, now that we've more or less understood the work of Vatican II, Francis will lead us in something of a new direction, with his concern for the poor. We have been speaking of the New Evangelization, as the work of the Church for the current age. With Francis, it seems that this Evangelization will take on more clearly the face of the original Evangelization, when Jesus preached the good news of God's Kingdom to the people of Israel.
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Post by rogesgallery on Mar 14, 2013 15:07:35 GMT -5
He gets a nice pair of custom made shoes too. I hear the ones he wore to Rome were pretty holey.
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Post by rogesgallery on Mar 14, 2013 16:00:13 GMT -5
On the other end of the political spectrum; Russ Fiengold, former D Senator from Wisconsin was the guest speaker on the World affairs Council's "Its your World" broadcast. It is interesting that Feingold states clearly that the flow of big money into political campaigns has corrupted the process by both parties. Video ...Free www.worldaffairs.org/audio-video/2013/senator-russ-feingold.htmlMartha Stewart is in trouble again also Merriam Webster is considering changing the definition of corruption.
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Post by booklady on Mar 14, 2013 18:59:27 GMT -5
Merriam Webster is considering changing the definition of corruption. Perhaps it's the ethical equivalent of the need to "adjust" SAT scoring to reflect the actual performance of students.
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