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Post by juliastar on Mar 16, 2007 20:41:45 GMT -5
"F-a-g-g-o-t" is a word that the default censor on proboard automatically censors, evidence that it is commonly understood to be offensive to at least some people. To substitute ding dong makes the entire discussion look silly which might be your point, Trusty, new slur words do keep being invented but that is no excuse for resurrecting the historic ones in terms of their usage. I'd prefer you restore the original language and delete Ed's ugly "joke" that is on par with JTOS's famous ugly helicopter talk.
------------------------
I got an email today, Joe. You guess how the sender votes.
The title is "Phone Rules -- How ALL Business Phones SHOULD Be Answered."
Picture of Cute Operator
"Good Morning, Welcome to the United States of America."
Twinkling Stars, Red, White and Blue Stripes, twinkling.
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you learn to speak English.
And remember only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American soldier.
--------------------------------------------------- This sort of thing happens to religion when you mix church and state.
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Post by joew on Mar 16, 2007 21:15:48 GMT -5
What's a "defining force?"
I was afraid that this sort of misunderstanding would occur. It wasn't exactly Ed's joke, which is the point I was making to Trusty. It was a joke someone else told on the radio many years ago. I'm not going to speak for edsfam but to me it seems to suggest that 1.) standards have changed in that something that was acceptable back then is no longer acceptable, 2.) it should be acceptable because the person who said it is still on the radio, or 3.) there is a double standard in that people who don't object to this announcer's joke or the Kos people's use of it do object when Ann Coulter says it. (I realize that there are people here who do object to every use of the word, at least by non-homosexuals.) IOW, it did not seem to me that he was repeating the joke as a joke but as a way of providing a fact for consideration in our discussion of the word.
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Post by Trusty on Mar 16, 2007 21:28:18 GMT -5
I realize I have made a mistake and am deeply sorry. I was asked to do something about the thread by a concerned member, and I did it the wrong way. I've uncensored the word - everything is back to normal, except for my embarrassment. I won't mess with this thread again. Please forgive me.
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Post by Trusty on Mar 16, 2007 21:36:00 GMT -5
I'd prefer you restore the original language and delete Ed's ugly "joke" that is on par with JTOS's famous ugly helicopter talk. I just read this after my last post. Again, I am not Sysop; I've tried to correct my errors, but if you want someone else's post deleted, please ask that person. Thank you.
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Post by juliastar on Mar 16, 2007 21:55:28 GMT -5
I am not speaking to that person. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by gailkate on Mar 16, 2007 23:25:54 GMT -5
Poor Trusty. Never mind, you're in the middle and definitely not SYSOP. For you ![](http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/extra3/bloom.gif) Just to clarify - it wasn't Kos who used the word in a post. It was just a cyber voice, posting with no more authority than any of us would have here or on any other board. Maybe Kos should have removed it; I don't know what his rules are. The CBS rules I copied earlier imply that they would have removed it. But our discussion was about the meaning of the word and the intention of its user, which I think puts it on a different level. No one here applied the word to a person or persons, so I don't think it needs to be deleted. But you didn't have a lot of choices.
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Post by rogesgallery on Mar 17, 2007 1:46:58 GMT -5
Well I have been avoiding this tread. Mea Culpa! I had no idea that the subject matter had continued to disintegarte into the realm of ettiquette; one of my favorite subjects.
Sorry Gracie but this is cutted and pasted from my literary collection I call "It Aint My Fault!"
The subject, Etiquette, is one of my favorite indicators. Like the value of, and peoples preoccupation with gold is a socio-economic indicator, Etiquette is an indicator of a cultures advancement toward civilized behavior. At this point public dialog indicates that we are no closer to civilized than we were 40,000 years ago. It’s not that Etiquette is so interesting in it's subject matter. It’s not that I enjoy discussing the subtlty of it's minutiae. It is just that I am fasinated by the excruciatngly slow pace of evolution.
Humanity has thrashed itself with Etiquette since beyond, beyond. We’ve excoriated each other with distain so identical to that which we intended to repudiate, it seems more like satire than discussion amongst folks who call themselves civil. Everything from Aspersion to Zealotry has been analyzed argued and devolved into insult.
From the first reference I am familiar with in Chapter 6 of the apocryphal “Book of Enoch” as translated by Richard Laurence, LL.D.:
“But you endure not patiently, nor fulfil the commandments of the Lord; but you transgress and calumniate his greatness; and malignant are the words in your polluted mouths against his Majesty.”
To The latest public words of Rush Limbaugh (and Ann Coulter), humans have obliviously skirted the premise of slander so obviously for the the sake of the last word that it sometimes becomes an embarrassment to be human.
I am certain that Eve also had some discussion with Adam about his inflammatory accusation as to her activities with Satan/ Serpent, but we will never know the truth of that disscussion unless we buy into Mark Twain’s claim that he possessed a copy of “The Adamic Papers”.
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Post by brutus on Mar 17, 2007 7:19:57 GMT -5
![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) Oh my gosh! Are we going this route AGAIN So, some talking head used the "F" word. Big deal! Opinions are like a**holes, everybody's got one, and is entitled to it. Some folks get paid big bucks to spout theirs through the media. Again, big deal! I can't help but have flashbacks to the war that erupted in the old joint over John's joke re: New Orleans and it just sickens me. Funny how some certain people will get their dander up about a supposedly racial remark, only to become just as offensive in their own way of expressing themselves. Now, I'm thinking that if he'd suggested strapping a Republican to a chopper, the cheers would have been deafening. If you're going to take offense at every single thing that could be construed as offensive, then I won't invite you to coffee with my gang. You'd have us all hauled off by the Thought Police and tried and hanged ala Saddam. What is with this self-righteous indignation?? Certainly Ann Coulter could have expressed herself differently and still got her message across. But do you need to resort to "muddleheaded" or "puddin'head" to make your point?? You are no longer any better than Ann is. Funny thing is the way that some have countered your thoughts with valid points, only to be completely ignored. instead, a liberal ration of cut'n'paste from some rag that supports your ideals is substituted for making your own points. Sure, there's a place for cut'n'paste, but to use it as a substitute for original thought is sorta phony. So, that said, are some, once again, going to run off to their own little corner where they're protected by others who only follow the same thought patterns?? Will you pop in here on occasion, spout off and go hide again?? I was truly impressed by this group when we first got together here. Sure, some political discussion took place, but the differences of opinion were stated in rational and civil method, and I truly thought that we'd come around. I'm not so sure anymore. Now before I get words such as "Your President" thrown at me for writing this post, let me say this: I want to stand behind the Prez, just because. For some time now, I have been doubting the whizzdumb at taking on the task of cleaning Iraq up. I am taking a long critical look at the path our country is on in nearly aspect. I hope I haven't offended anyone by my remarks here, because I don't wish to be relegated to obscurity like John the Okie Swede was. I probably won't be, because nobody's gonna threaten Trusty by withholding financial support of this forum. I am seeing some folks for who they really are, here, and it makes me sad to see normally good folks reduce themselves to stone throwers over words. (sigh) ~B~[/b]
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Post by booklady on Mar 17, 2007 7:53:45 GMT -5
I exalted you for that post, Brutus.
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Post by gailkate on Mar 17, 2007 9:02:23 GMT -5
I guess it's good you got that off your chest, Brutus. The weight of it has brought tears to my eyes so I see why you wanted to unload it. BL, there's a lot of old history here. I'm the target of that spear and he aimed dead-on.
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Post by rogesgallery on Mar 17, 2007 11:47:14 GMT -5
Treadikng the path of Ettiquette sure can cut up a pair of tennis shoes. Teehee Blink blink
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Post by doctork on Mar 17, 2007 12:23:16 GMT -5
Like Rodney King, I'd like to know "Can't we all just get along?"
These are just words on a page, standing for ideas which are strongly held by some.
If edsfam wants to making cutting jokes, he can do so, and we can agree or respond or scroll through and ignore. If juliastar feels strongly and wants to respond strongly good on her, I'm glad she cares.
To me, the words are not important enough to disrupt the solidarity of our group. I'm glad we're here post-Chatterbox, and grateful to slb and trusty for seeing us through the transition. I read each person's post and appreciate the contribution, whether or not I agree with the idea.
I don't remember what was said about New Orleans that was offensive in the old Chatterbox. Being something of a NOLA "homie", I think I woulda noticed. Lest there be another firestorm over a few words, if someone wants to enlighten me - send a PM.
I went to eighth grade "Cotillion" and learned that Emily Post was onto something with that etiquette stuff. So my tennis shoes are OK. How's yours?
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Post by juliastar on Mar 17, 2007 12:45:24 GMT -5
I don't remember what was said about New Orleans that was offensive in the old Chatterbox. Being something of a NOLA "homie", I think I woulda noticed. Lest there be another firestorm over a few words, if someone wants to enlighten me - send a PM. Here's to enlightenment. What do you do when you are chatting along and someone drops a comment like this: BTW: I DO have one concrete suggestion regarding one aspect of dealing semi-effectively with this disaster--one that somehow the failures/misplaced priorities of the Kennedy, Johnson and Clinton Administrations weren't forced to face--and that would be strapping members of the current Congressional Black Caucus (plus Jessie and Al) to the front of the rescue helicopters so that the helicopters are slightly less likely to get shot at while performing their humanitarian duties. By John "The Okie Swede on 9/2/05 at 7:05 PM
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Post by brutus on Mar 17, 2007 12:49:57 GMT -5
![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) Oh my gosh! Are we going this route AGAIN So, some talking head used the "F" word. Big deal! You seem to have missed a lot, Brutus. Any name calling is not the equivalent of any other name calling. And what offends me most is that you have been SILENT during all of Ed's childish name calling but when he gets his own medicine, you suddenly equate that as a free pass for all manner of disrespect. This is a popular REPUBLICAN rhetorical trick which you seem to have fallen for. Bush caught with his hand in the cookie jar, we must talk about some Democrat offense. One recent commentator put it this way, to say that what Clinton did in the context of the latest Justice Department scandal is the equivalent of what Bush has done is to try to say that dog bites man is the equivalent of man bites dog. She is not the big deal. The Big Deal is that she was an invited speaker of a prominent conservative group meeting in Washington to set policy recommendations for YOUR party and when she spoke about Faggots, the audience laughed and applauded. This was brought up as a rebuttal to Joe's banner -- Republicans are the party of respect; Our bumper sticker is Love God (my God); and Love Your Neighbor. What part of love your neighbor does gay bashing further? I can't control your flashbacks. We've run through the N-word; whatever that Asian slur that I don't use so I don't ever remember that Flexrod thought was not offensive so he had a god given right to throw it around in the context of dead bodies and now gay slurs. There are a lot more to go. Tell your buddies to avoid them, especially in the context of jokes about death and violence, if you don't want to see an inevitable ruckus when they use them in good company. Those are the people I respect. Now you're not thinking. You've turned off your brain and aren't being honest with even yourself and if you don't know Gail or I or PT or Dan better than that by now, you don't know anything. You did not object to any of Ed's name calling, you've probably exalted him. You can not point to a legitimate Democratic organization inviting a speaker of Ann Coulter's type, nor a Democratic crowd cheering her on. And you won't. The best you can do is find political speech, critical of people in power that you support which is our first amendment right. Life is short. If your gang can't have a conversation without using the n-word, without mocking the speech of immigrants, without talking about faggots, I would not want to have coffee with your gang. I would not want to be in the same room with them. Joe can have my spot. If they start in on the less than human talk, you know, throw them on the fire, you are going to see some indignation. I see that as my Christian call if you want to get right down to it. It is not looking out for number one and to hell with everybody else. You'd have us all hauled off by the Thought Police and tried and hanged ala Saddam. I would talk back. Which is what I've done. I wouldn't exalt and egg on him. As you will recall, Flexrod said he was fired for circulating a joke about his wife's sexuality. I asked my husband what he would have to do as a manager if someone brought Edsfam's joke to him, circulated in a work environment. "Fire him," he said. This stuff is not tolerated. I think less of people who engage in it and those who have no problem with it, especially those who laugh along. I tend to avoid them in my life. That is my right and the way of the world. Free advice: If you are looking for social ostracism, carry on. Well, well!!! I read what you wrote and you're almost dead on. I'm not going to pick your post apart like you did mine so as to mine out the little gems that are pertinent to my argument. I'll just let your responses paint your picture for you. Oh, and FYI: I didn't miss a damn thing! ~B~
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Post by brutus on Mar 17, 2007 12:57:15 GMT -5
I don't remember what was said about New Orleans that was offensive in the old Chatterbox. Being something of a NOLA "homie", I think I woulda noticed. Lest there be another firestorm over a few words, if someone wants to enlighten me - send a PM. Here's to enlightenment. What do you do when you are chatting along and someone drops a comment like this: BTW: I DO have one concrete suggestion regarding one aspect of dealing semi-effectively with this disaster--one that somehow the failures/misplaced priorities of the Kennedy, Johnson and Clinton Administrations weren't forced to face--and that would be strapping members of the current Congressional Black Caucus (plus Jessie and Al) to the front of the rescue helicopters so that the helicopters are slightly less likely to get shot at while performing their humanitarian duties. By John "The Okie Swede on 9/2/05 at 7:05 PM Ain't this a surprise?? She saved this post for a year-and-a-half to toss out as ammunition when the time came. I wonder what other gems she's got in her arsenal. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ~B~
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Post by doctork on Mar 17, 2007 13:03:03 GMT -5
I don't remember what was said about New Orleans that was offensive in the old Chatterbox. Being something of a NOLA "homie", I think I woulda noticed. Lest there be another firestorm over a few words, if someone wants to enlighten me - send a PM. Here's to enlightenment. What do you do when you are chatting along and someone drops a comment like this: BTW: I DO have one concrete suggestion regarding one aspect of dealing semi-effectively with this disaster--one that somehow the failures/misplaced priorities of the Kennedy, Johnson and Clinton Administrations weren't forced to face--and that would be strapping members of the current Congressional Black Caucus (plus Jessie and Al) to the front of the rescue helicopters so that the helicopters are slightly less likely to get shot at while performing their humanitarian duties. By John "The Okie Swede on 9/2/05 at 7:05 PM I might click "Ignore Post" if we had the feature. More likely I'd "consider the source" and perhaps think back to "I'm rubber and you're glue..." Some posts I consider ignorant do not merit a response - it only encourages them. Possibly, I'd comment that most New Orleans crime - then and now - is black-on-black crime; uneducated poor kids with no future shooting each other in drug wars. Uneducated persons elsewhere post gratuitous comments revealing their ignorance and bigotry.
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Post by scotbrit on Mar 17, 2007 13:07:59 GMT -5
~B~
Come come, my friend. "Stone throwing?"
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Post by brutus on Mar 17, 2007 13:34:05 GMT -5
Ain't this a surprise?? She saved this post for a year-and-a-half to toss out as ammunition when the time came. I wonder what other gems she's got in her arsenal. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ~B~ That's right, except I would not characterize this as a gem. Doozie, maybe. More like turd. And why do you suppose I kept it? Because I knew there would be attempts to re-write St. John's history and this is not the first time I've had to pull it out. Onward and upward. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Onward and upward. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ~B~
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Post by rogesgallery on Mar 17, 2007 22:14:19 GMT -5
The Irish lived fer many a year in t' blood of hate and internal war. Twas a sad time t' sae cousin aginst cousin an neiberr aginst neiberr. T' blood o T' childrin runnin red in t' straets. Wer t'at it never com t' yer home t' yer neiberrhood.
Twas a fight o independenc an philosiphy an politcs wit insults an argument bein tied to bullets an bombs. Neerr 80 yaers off hate t’at nerr got t’ Irish err t’ Brrits anyting t’ey wud noet ev gotten wit 80 yaers o negotiatin, fer t’a Irish er good at talkin an no one kin deny t’at.
_____________________________________________________________
“It is easy to be pleasant when life flows by like a song, but the man worth while is the one who will smile when everything goes dead wrong. For the test of the heart is trouble, and it always comes with years, and the smile that is worth the praises of earth is the smile that shines through the tears.”
Irish quote author unknown (by me) _____________________________________________________________
I was strolling through the jungle Of politics and bungle When I came upon a lion A talent and a very comely girl
She roar-ed and she cri-ed Someone had hurt her Pri-ed And her sense of moral Justice in the wor-ld
Then somewhere in the distance There came with some resistance A Bru-it he was play-in on a lute
The song that Brut was Blow-in Soon matched the Lion roar-in Twas then the jungle all came out to sing
Weeee’ll never see tomorow If evry thing is sorrow And hopes a pendant on our necks Like a string of Shiny pearls
Nothin ever will get bett’r If ar minds remain in fett’rs Fer the Roar-in and the Blowin of ar words
Roges Someone want t' finish t's ditty? Please
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Post by booklady on Mar 18, 2007 13:41:06 GMT -5
Hubbell Gardner: People are more important than their principles. Katie Morosky Gardner: People ARE their principles.
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Post by booklady on Mar 18, 2007 14:22:01 GMT -5
Let's take a small break here to take care of a matter. I received a complaint asking me to basically police this thread and not allow a certain "kind of post" for reasons contained in the following questions. I need to know what you think. Please sincerely answer two questions (yes or no): 1. In your opinion, has there been any post on this thread that has contained any vicious attack(s) on another poster? 2. In your opinion, do the posts on this thread endanger the spirit of free speech of this website? I appreciate your answers, and we can get back to the subject at hand. In the last page or two? 1. Pretty damn close. 2. Yes.
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Post by booklady on Mar 18, 2007 14:27:57 GMT -5
No matter how he is finally wedged into the appliance, Gonzales is toast. A fabulous line. PT, your writing is so fine.
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Post by rogesgallery on Mar 18, 2007 16:53:59 GMT -5
Yes trusty spoken like a true sports announcer. Teehee Wink wink.
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Post by booklady on Mar 18, 2007 16:56:39 GMT -5
What did Trusty say?
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Post by rogesgallery on Mar 18, 2007 17:47:18 GMT -5
ooops PT
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Post by brutus on Mar 18, 2007 18:40:36 GMT -5
Re: Post #193:
It's fantastic how vapid some folks get in their own defense. The response to my previous post sounds a lot like those speech styles that are under attack.
Had JTOS suggested strapping some politicians to that chopper, it wouldn't have worked. That magnificent flying machine would, then, be toast for sure. ~B~
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Post by Gracie on Mar 18, 2007 19:45:32 GMT -5
I really hate this.
I'm about to leave this board, myself. I haven't said much because I'm not around a lot, and I don't know a lot of the back history. And on most of the boards I've belonged to I've been known as 'the peacemaker.'
But that doesn't mean that I don't have opinions, just that I try to be very careful and tactful when I do speak.
I have run into the great divide between Republicans and Democrats before; I'm usually in the minority in my beliefs. I finally said to a pastor at the camp that I loved so--after a week of potshots at me--that nowhere in the Bible I read did the God I serve and believe in say that to be a Christian I have to be Republican. In the same vein, just because I oppose the war and do NOT agree with the current administration that does not mean I am not fully supportive of the soldiers and their families. I was a military fiancee and later a military wife, and I know damn well that you follow orders whether you agree with them or not.
I know the history of the word 'faggot' and how it came to be synonymous with homosexuality. What I didn't expect to see was similar fires of hatred started here, and fanned and fed by people who I admired and respected. I'm losing that, now, and that's hard.
I stand with Julia in what she says and believes, but even if I did not...I would stand behind her right to say it. It is not easy to remain true to your belief when met with so much opposition.
You're giving me a lot to think about, gang. I just wish the thoughts felt better.
Peace-- Beth
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Post by booklady on Mar 18, 2007 20:35:39 GMT -5
I'm so confused.
Some woman, hundreds or thousands of miles away from each of us, whom no one here respects, makes an offhand stupid remark using a word that probably no one here would ever say.
We get into a fight about that and rip apart this community.
Yeah, Ann Coulter is worth that.
My ass.
Why does what Ann Couter says matter to ANYONE here? Do we care what she thinks? Do her opinions, likes, dislikes, prejudices, quirks, stupidities, ignorances, and insensitivities really matter to anyone here? Really? Why? Who cares what she says?
Are people who don't particularly care what she says thinks bad? evil? not worth associating with? why? Could these people possibly be carrying around other baggage (aversion to other words, perhaps) that you don't know about?
If you think she's a hate monger, do you let her win by letting her separate you from people you've once called friend?
I just honestly do not understand how someone no one here cares about can be allowed to wreak so much damage.
We all have the right to our political opinions, and also we have the right to be spoken to with respect, without assumptions being made about our votes and our preferences.
Why do bloody political discussions always have to get so personally hurtful? And lest I be misunderstood, I mean BOTH Republican and Democrats flinging the missiles.
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Post by joew on Mar 18, 2007 20:40:07 GMT -5
Gracie — you have been a welcome presence here. I am sorry to read that you are planning to leave, because your leaving will greatly diminish our group. I'm asking you to reconsider.
You mention your agreement with juliastar and you speak of the fanning of fires of hatred. Let me suggest that for the most part what happened here is that we discussed the admissibillity of the use of a word. We discussed it vigorously. But it seems to me that for people to say that Ann Coulter's use of the word was not worse that things which other people have said is not the same as expressing hatred of homosexuals. Let me also suggest that if people have disagreed with juliastar, that is not the same as saying that she cannot express her opinions, and that to some extent it has not been her opinions so much as her manner of expressing them that some here have sometimes been uncomfortable with. Is it really so intolerable that some people disagree with juliastar and that some people sometimes are unhappy at how she expresses those opinions?
Again, you and your opinions and your gracious manner are always welcome to me.
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Post by Gracie on Mar 18, 2007 20:41:15 GMT -5
We all have the right to our political opinions, and also we have the right to be spoken to with respect, without assumptions being made about our votes and our preferences.
That's better said than what I posted, booklady. Thank you.
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