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Post by gailkate on Dec 30, 2009 19:51:27 GMT -5
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Post by doctork on Dec 30, 2009 21:06:46 GMT -5
Indeed a good story, makes excellent points. He even noted the lack of attention to St. Hillary when it's her State Department that made many mistakes. Same with Director of National Intelligence.
I think he cuts Janet Napolitano too much slack, but he is right, it's not All Her Fault, and the Prez can't be firing everyone at the drop of a hat every time there is a mistake made.
He even points out that we cannot prevent all terrorist attacks no matter how many machines used. So why not at least do the basics - screen all airport employees, all cargo, all vendors.
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Post by gailkate on Dec 31, 2009 0:05:16 GMT -5
I find the looseness around employees worrisome, too, but have we ever had an attack or attempted attack carried out by airport employees? I think I remember on of the "cells" (which turned out to be pure fantasizing) involved a baggage handler - dunno. The same is true of cargo. It surprises me that no one has tried, but I'm pretty sure no one has, at least not in this country. I thought it was interesting that he echoed your comments about the fact that we won't catch every single perp - of course, he didn't actually say "cojones" on national radio.
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Post by hartlikeawheel on Dec 31, 2009 1:01:56 GMT -5
Well, tonight's news is that Mr. Limbaugh has gone to the hospital in Hawaii and is in serious condition with heart problems.
Holiday heart?
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Post by Gracie on Dec 31, 2009 9:42:27 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but when I first heard this last night, I thought, he has a heart?
I know...bad Gracie....
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Post by jspnrvr on Dec 31, 2009 9:49:47 GMT -5
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Post by doctork on Dec 31, 2009 10:36:56 GMT -5
Jay, Mega Buzz on FlyerTalk, where one of the victims of the TSA police state (yes I mean that - it is not hyperbole) has posted directly about the experience: www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1033523-federal-agents-seize-travel-bloggers-computer.htmlThe "crime" in this case was posting the TSA Security Directive that outlined the new rules pax must follow on airlines - being seated for an hour before landing, one carry-on only, nothing in your lap, no toys out for children to play with, etc. TSA did not put it on their website, yet pax are supposed to obey. We really need to know the rules, but TSA wasn't saying. The two bloggers received the directive from TSA personnel, so why not pursue the TSA employees who don't respect security rules, not the messengers who blog the info pax need? Pleases recall that it was FlyerTalk that also outed the incompetence of TSA in posting improperly redacted "security sensitive information" on the internet, with resultant threats of fines & lawsuits to bloggers for being patriotic and alerting the government to the risks. And these same TSA employees who know less than a 5th grader about "Copy & Paste" are the very people responsible for life and death security on airliners. I think the TSA was holding back on posting rules or information themselves because they had no idea what to do and didn't want to risk posting something stupid. Sad. There are people out there who want to kill us. Heads up folks, the time for amateur hour (Hey kids! Let's put on a Security Show!) is over. Everyone is agreeing that passengers are the best defense against terrorism (especially after all the "authorities" have failed to keep the terrorists off the plane), so why the persecution for attempts to keep pax informed? Gracie, I confess, your thoughts were similar to mine! Though I thought of The Grinch, whose heart was three sizes too small. Shock - and I am a doctor who doesn't wish illness on anyone. Gail - fortunately for us, most of the TSA criminal behavior has been petty crime - stealing from baggage, setting up fencing rings, drug crimes. Airline employees are much less commonly involved because airlines hold their employees accountable; they catch and fire perpetrators. For the TSA, firing happens only when local news media identify criminals and make a big public fuss. I don't recall any TSA-related terrorist attempts, but of course Pan Am 103 that exploded over Lockerbie was due to a cargo bomb placed by terrorists. The Bojinka plot of 1995 (al Qaeda-financed attempt to blow up 12 airliners flying trans-Pac to US) was foiled by Philippine police hard work, with only one passenger death due to a nitroglycerin bomb on board. I wonder why we did not start all the security hoopla back then instead of waiting until after 9/11?
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Post by jspnrvr on Dec 31, 2009 10:59:50 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but when I first heard this last night, I thought, he has a heart? I know...bad Gracie.... A lot of folks here have a pretty good idea where I come from; I am a pretty conservative guy. I'm not here to rant,argue or persuade; I'm here to be neighborly with fellow chatters. Listen to Rush's show for a couple weeks, even if only for a half-hour a day, or go to the show's website and read the daily synopsis. Rush does indeed have a heart, filled with love of this country, it's history and exceptionalism, and it's people. It's ok, Gracie. I had some very un-Christian thoughts about Ted Kennedy. We're all human. And that's all I have to say.
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Post by doctork on Dec 31, 2009 11:35:59 GMT -5
From the FlyerTalk thread, this is post #46:
From a pseudo fly on the wall at DHS HQ:
'We need some good press, like a high profile tewwowist related arrest. How about that Bin Laden guy?"
"Been looking for 8 years, can't find his cave in Hideoutistan."
"Who can we get?"
"How about some American Bloggers? We know where they live, he!! they're in the phone book. We can send agents there during daylight hours with no travel or perdiem expenses."
"Book 'em Danno!"
Made me laugh out loud.
And behind the laughter, there is shame that my government behaves this way. This Security Directive was sent to over 10,000 people all over the globe, at least one of whom disclosed the contents - remember it was NOT labeled secure or secret - to two bloggers, and it is the bloggers who are persecuted. Steve (one of the bloggers) was approached and threatened by two armed men in his home at night (7 pm - not really daylight hours, but what the heck, the guys maybe worked swing shift) with his 3 children present. He was holding his 3 year old child in his arms, and his two older children hid in fear behind his desk, as these two armed "special agents" intimidated him, threatened his job and livelihood, in an attempt to discover which TSA employee (or might it have been one of the 10,000?) "splilled the beans."
I'd post the Security Directive myself right here so you could see how benign it is, but I am too cowardly to face armed government agents threatening me when I am home alone while my husband is at work.
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Post by doctork on Dec 31, 2009 11:51:03 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but when I first heard this last night, I thought, he has a heart? I know...bad Gracie.... A lot of folks here have a pretty good idea where I come from; I am a pretty conservative guy. I'm not here to rant,argue or persuade; I'm here to be neighborly with fellow chatters. Listen to Rush's show for a couple weeks, even if only for a half-hour a day, or go to the show's website and read the daily synopsis. Rush does indeed have a heart, filled with love of this country, it's history and exceptionalism, and it's people. It's ok, Gracie. I had some very un-Christian thoughts about Ted Kennedy. We're all human. And that's all I have to say. Sorry Jay. In my book no good citizen - conservative, liberal or middle of the road - really hopes that his/her president will fail. Yet that is what Mr. Limbaugh was hoping when President Obama took office. Even at our lowest national points, with the worst presidential actions, I never hoped that Bush 1 or 2, or Reagan, or Nixon or LBJ or Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter would fail. If I didn't like their actions, I might hope they were not re-elected, but I still hoped the President and his administration would be successful, because I love my country. I didn't like Ted Kennedy either, though I could appreciate his dedication to the achievement of equitable health care. I used to be a Republican, and supported GWB in his first campaign. I have listened to Rush Limbaugh's show in the past, and even recognizing that he is an entertainer whose greatest concern is ratings, I cannot tolerate his slanted hate-mongering. So I don't listen any more. I have no problem with reasonable conservatives interested in intelligent discussion of controversial issues; they usually have valid points worth consideration.
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Post by Gracie on Dec 31, 2009 20:09:40 GMT -5
Kristin, you said it better than I could have. Thank you. I agree (except I didn't vote for GWB.)
I am ALL for intelligent, reasonable discussion, but so often it turns so vicious....Ann Coulter gives me the shivers.
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Post by doctork on Dec 31, 2009 21:02:33 GMT -5
Well I didn't actually vote for GWB either, as I did a "Nader trader" with my cousin in Arizona. I wanted to reflect my disappointment that neither candidate represented the best that his party could offer. I would not have wished for W to fail.
I hope Rush Limbaugh makes a full recovery, and I hope in the process his heart, like the Grinch's, grows a few sizes larger. My mom used to work at Queen's Hospital in Honolulu, and they do good work there. I wouldn't wish ill health or death on anyone.
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Post by Jane on Jan 1, 2010 14:14:40 GMT -5
I can't believe that the Blackwater murderers were just let off with no charges and consequently no punishment for killing Iraqi civilians. The head of the organization is from Holland, MI, about 30 miles from here on Lake Michigan, and he is crazier than a sack of squirrels. His last name is "Prince" and he is heir to the Prince spaghetti fortune. He claims that God himself has given him the orders to destroy Islam. Now "Blackwater" has been renamed two or three times and continues to be under contract in Iraq to "protect" Americans.
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Post by Jane on Jan 1, 2010 14:19:10 GMT -5
I just googled Prince, and learned that his fortune came from an auto parts business started by his father. It's always been said around here that his money comes from Prince pasta products, which used to be one of the largest employers in Holland (I think they have moved out now--probably making pasta in Puerto Rico).
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 14:44:00 GMT -5
Eric Prince (IIRC that is his name) is heavily connected politically and with the corporatocracy. It is no surprise that he and his empire are protected. Google some more and you will find that many former high-level government appointees are on the boards and management teams of his corporation(s).
Bipartisan too by the way - he or one of his cronies was high-level in the Hillary Clinton campaign, while his company began its meteoric rise in lucrative government contracts during the Bush Administration. Dirty business as usual. Same crowd will be profiting hugely from all the new WBI scanners installed at airports. Evidently, none of them own sniffer-dog-training facilities, and of course dogs don't charge/cost millions of $$$.
I would imagine the four murderers were just the tip of the iceberg, but it's all justified "in the name of security" of course. There are more contractors in Iraq & Afghanistan than there are US military.
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Post by BoatBabe on Jan 1, 2010 14:56:07 GMT -5
Hmmmm . . . sounds suspiciously like the Illegal Aliens: "We Have to have them. They do jobs that No One Else will do . . ."
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 14:57:21 GMT -5
Late last night, DHS withdrew its subpoenas demanding travel writer/blogger Chris Elliott's computers. There is wide speculation that social media (twitter, etc) ramped up the heat so high that the story hit the mainstream media rather quickly. The subsequent embarrassing publicity over TSA/DHS heavy-handedness was apparently judged not worth the information to be gained. Or they may have gained the information needed from Steve Frischling's computer when in fear for his and his toddler's well-being in the hands of armed "US Government agents," he handed over his computer. At any rate, I hope that DHS and TSA will redirect their time, money and efforts away from bloggers alerting the public to necessary travel information, and toward catching real security threats. Like maybe better scrutiny of a young radicalized Nigerian Muslim with a valid visa (?!) on a terror watch list, rumored to be carrying explosives on a US-bound flight on Christmas Day. Just my 2 cents worth, but what do I know.
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 15:04:18 GMT -5
Hmmmm . . . sounds suspiciously like the Illegal Aliens: "We Have to have them. They do jobs that No One Else will do . . ." Well, yes. If the government could not hire contractors, there would need to be a draft to obtain enough warm bodies to fight wars. And if there were a draft, maybe even equal opportunity for both men and women these days, and maybe even for the children of politicians, then there might be greater objection to starting/continuing wars.
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Post by Jane on Jan 1, 2010 15:37:14 GMT -5
Actually, I believe that during the last campaign, Hillary was advocating a total ban against Blackwater. However, some of their contracts (although certainly not all) have been continued by the Obama administration. But they have changed their name three or four times, so they are "hidden" in the system.
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Post by gailkate on Jan 1, 2010 15:38:37 GMT -5
Intel clearly failed on the Nigerian, but the size of the lists seems so hugely disproportionate that - even with the best of computers - I don't know how we can expect such screening to work. Not that I'm saying we don't need such lists, but are they badly defined, so broad as to be useless?
As for wars and the draft, I hated the inequities in the Vietnam war, but I'm not sure a new-and-improved draft is the answer. Maybe just send the guys who are pushing for war? If you vote for it, you go. Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney leading the hawks who vote to invade another country.
And btw, if we used our national guard as air marshalls and airport security, I'd feel a lot safer. How come we can't do that, I wonder? are they off doing something else?
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 16:19:37 GMT -5
Hillary may have opposed Blackwater in principal, but her chief strategist (Mark something-or-other) was head of the PR/consulting firm that defended Blackwater when they came up for negative Congressional hearings. He billed her campaign $8 or $10 million as I recall. When that connection came to light and generated adverse publicity, he was removed from center stage, but continued his strategic work for her. Thinking about it now, how did that work out for Hillary?
karma
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 17:27:57 GMT -5
Intel clearly failed on the Nigerian, but the size of the lists seems so hugely disproportionate that - even with the best of computers - I don't know how we can expect such screening to work. Not that I'm saying we don't need such lists, but are they badly defined, so broad as to be useless? As for wars and the draft, I hated the inequities in the Vietnam war, but I'm not sure a new-and-improved draft is the answer. Maybe just send the guys who are pushing for war? If you vote for it, you go. Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney leading the hawks who vote to invade another country. And btw, if we used our national guard as air marshalls and airport security, I'd feel a lot safer. How come we can't do that, I wonder? are they off doing something else? Regarding the lists, yes they are so broad as to likely be useless, but who knows since the list is not given to the airlines or TSA to be screened against potential air travelers. Still, I wonder if the list could be better used? After all, hundreds of millions of people have and use Visa cards, but the bank never has any trouble identifying me and my card, and sending up an alert if the card is used in a locale where I am not supposed to be. Or use the dozen or more member organizations of the intel community to winnow the list, or make a second scrubbed list that is more relevant and accurate. I say "relevant" because it appears many names on the list are common criminals or others with no link to a security threat. The National Guard generally have day jobs elsewhere and supposedly are called out only for emergencies, although I am sure they would do an excellent job. Actually, I think many TSA employees are intelligent, dedicated and capable, (yes I really said that!) and if they had better leadership, they could do a good job too. Competent leadership should fire the bad apples that give the competent employees a bad name, and then institute real security procedures instead of "show" or "faux" security theater. This is why I empathize with (but don't condone) Senator DeMint (R-SC) who is holding up the nomination of Erroll Southers as head of TSA because of concerns that Southers would allow unionization of the TSA workforce. As problematic as TSA performance is today, I can only imagine how much worse it would be if it were impossible to fire incompetent employees with "union protections."
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 17:47:37 GMT -5
Have any of you seen Michael Chertoff, former Secretary of DHS, on the news, advising all who will listen that if the TSA would only use WBI scanning on all pax, then the Underwear Bomber would have been caught. Presumably, all other Evil Doers too. Funny thing is, his current consulting firm, The Chertoff Group, has Rapiscan (the manufacturer of said equipment) as a (high-paying I bet) client.
I thought there was a law against people like Chertoff lobbying their former employers for one full year after leaving office. But I suppose being a talking head touting one's client's wares is different. At least WaPo outed the truth, otherwise some might believe it was Chertoff's honest and informed opinion offered only to save lives.
OTOH, L-3 Communications, the only other company that manufactures similar machinery, has (former General, Ret'd) John Shalishkavili on its Board of directors. Which corporatocrat will win out? The General or the (former) Judge? JMHO, but I'd choose neither. None of the Above.
Your tax dollars at work, and gub'mint contracts for sale to the most influential bidder.
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Post by rogesgallery on Jan 1, 2010 20:53:57 GMT -5
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 21:49:14 GMT -5
I can relate to this phenomenon of lost items. 'Nuf said. I saw the PBS show and concur with your recommendation. The Corporatocracy does not like it when someone points out that the emperor has no clothes on. Observe: almost no one knows who Brooksley Born is, but Timothy Geithner and Robert Rubin are still running the show, and most of the other "usual suspects" (aka crooks) are still operating unrestrained behind the curtain. I did see a news clip on CNN raising the question of a conflict of interest between donors to the William Jefferson Clinton Foundation and his wife Hillary's position as Secretary of State (who just might possibly be giving the impression that such donations could result in favorable diplomatic actions). ' D'ya think? More business as usual. The TSA has put up another "redacted" SSI (security sensitive information) document with the same non-effective removal of the sensitive information. Anyone who can Copy and Paste is free to read it. Could somebody please send in a 5th grader to help them out? I am not surprised we shoot ourselves in the foot. Just how quickly we re-load. Arrgh!
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Post by doctork on Jan 1, 2010 21:58:54 GMT -5
Jane, another news story said that Iraq didn't care for the not guilty verdict regarding the murderers of 17 (not "just" 4) Iraqis, so the Iraqi authorities are investigating a lawsuit against the perpetrators. Much skepticism about the chances of success in even finding a venue, but at least the controversy is being discussed out loud.
The US may be Goliath here, and David doesn't even have a slingshot, but someone should raise the idea that anger generated by such Blackwater actions results in more dead US soldiers.
4,853 was the number quoted today, along with the note that there were "no US casualties in Iraq in December."
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Post by gailkate on Jan 2, 2010 0:40:43 GMT -5
I'm one of those who haven't heard of Born - will watch for another showing of the story.
What I heard about the Blackwater case was that it was based on some technicality, not an actual determination that they were not guilty. I'm glad the government is going to pursue it.
I was being ironic about the guard. The MN website says:
SINCE 2001, MORE THAN 19,000 MINNESOTA NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED & SERVED IN MORE THAN 33 COUNTRIES WORLDWIDE
Right now there are 2,000 in Iraq and Afghanistan. They could provide a whole lot of security at home.
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Post by BoatBabe on Jan 2, 2010 3:18:21 GMT -5
Hmmmm . . . sounds suspiciously like the Illegal Aliens: "We Have to have them. They do jobs that No One Else will do . . ." Well, yes. If the government could not hire contractors, there would need to be a draft to obtain enough warm bodies to fight wars. And if there were a draft, maybe even equal opportunity for both men and women these days, and maybe even for the children of politicians, then there might be greater objection to starting/continuing wars. Well, yes, this is the "follow the money" part. "If the government could not hire contractors" has not happened. The government Can hire contractors. People need jobs. So there will Not be a draft to obtain enough warm bodies to do the supportive work that is required to fight wars. In fact, men and women, even the children of politicians, have already taken jobs fighting wars, fighting fires and crime in the streets, and just being the people that you call when you need help. That number is "911" just in case you have forgotten. Just in case you are at work, and some crazy jerk decides to come in and rob you . . . this is the number that you need to call. And thank you, Jesus, they usually respond pretty darned fast. Not fast enough that the perp is still in the building. Those folks make sure they don't arrive visibly too fast. It has already saved some of our lives. I'd like to see "an end to war" too. It is the same vision as seeing an End to Crime. Think that is going to happen right away?
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Post by doctork on Jan 2, 2010 8:34:00 GMT -5
I heartily support those who fight fires and crime domestically in their jobs, and agree with gk that there is plenty for the MN National Guard to do right at home, never mind the 33 countries. Weren't they on duty at the Republican convention in MSP in 2008? The government could hire lots more contractors for that, as I believe many cities, counties and states have had to cut back on law enforcement budgets in our current economy.
And you hear this from someone who has volunteered for humanitarian aid in numerous foreign countries, including combat zones where the Guard's work is greatly appreciated!
I think I have seen statistics that Members of Congress (House and Senate) and White House staff have a much lower rate of military service in their families than the general population. I sometimes doubt that they can appreciate the sacrifices that are made by our military and their families, when they have not experienced it themselves.
I am very grateful to those who answer 9-1-1 calls, as I called them about once a week when I worked in the Urgent Care Clinic. There were a number of patients who really should have gone to the ER to begin with...
My family and I will never forget the episode near our home in West Virginia. A 4 year old girl sustained a (subsequently recognized as lethal) head injury, and the people who lived in the home where it happened were my patients, so they came and got me to attend to the little girl as soon as they had called 9-1-1. It took 18 minutes for the EMTs to get there, as we lived out in the country. An orthopedist lived nearby too, and he and I performed CPR on the little girl, silently wishing the anesthesiologist neighbor would get home soon so we could intubate her, until the team got there and hustled her off to the ER. When the ambulance arrived, we had difficulty intubating the child as they didn't have a small pediatric tube, but I managed to get the smallest one they had into her trachea (the ambulance had basic EMTs not paramedics), and off she went to the hospital, where Code Blue failed and she later died.
My children remember the incident because I came home drenched in blood, and my husband remembers because, being a psychiatric nurse, he saw the girl's mother the next day. At least he could tell her that he knew she had received good emergency medical care. I hate that stuff in the field (neighbors watching, big brother and grandfather screaming and crying), give me the hospital or the ER, or even the walk-in clinic, any time.
I don't think we will see an end to war or crime any time soon. I'd like to see an end to US "Wars of Choice" as soon as possible. I don't think that will happen soon either, as I have seen for myself what that would entail.
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Post by doctork on Jan 2, 2010 9:41:06 GMT -5
I'm one of those who haven't heard of Born - will watch for another showing of the story. What I heard about the Blackwater case was that it was based on some technicality, not an actual determination that they were not guilty. I'm glad the government is going to pursue it. You can watch the whole show about Brooksley Born online at the website roges included. It's the Iraqi government that is threatening to sue about the Blackwater shooting deaths, but the TV talking heads imply they have no standing, will find no venue, or there will be immunity preventing liability. When I did Katrina relief in NOLA area, our guards were Blackwater employees. I knew Brad, the day guy, pretty well, and he made oblique references to why he would never be working for Blackwater in Iraq or Afghanistan - I think for reasons like this case in question.
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