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Feb 11, 2012 17:05:27 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Feb 11, 2012 17:05:27 GMT -5
I apologize if this is the wrong thread to bring this up but isn't pancreatic failure associated with the over consumption of hard alcohol, and therefore a self inflicted disease — especially so in a celebrated scholar? If so why would his "battle" be so inspirational? Maybe I should just read the book? He had pancreatic cancer Roger, a random event not linked with alcohol ingestion. Not every illness or death is "someone's own fault." Why would you make such a hateful remark? You sound just like one of those insurance execs who wants to deny me and others expensive but life-improving or life-saving medication or surgery because if I have a serious illness it is probably my own fault so I should pay for it.
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Feb 11, 2012 17:38:46 GMT -5
Post by rogesgallery on Feb 11, 2012 17:38:46 GMT -5
I made it after an apologetic caveat. I don't even know the guy so the remark can't be hateful. I have known three people with pancreatic cancer and all were linked to drinking. "Maybe I should just read the book".
I could very well end up with a self inflicted illness. The question is: will I use the limited resources of medicine to fight something that is incurable and if I did battle it to the very limit of available resources would it be inspirational. Could it be as inspirational for me to admit my folly and face the consequences of my lack of foresight.
I'm not talking about random or genetic diseases. And I would think you know me better than to think I was sympathizing with corporate authoritarianism.
I am... once again chastised for my reincarnationist and preservationist thinking Roges
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Feb 11, 2012 18:02:51 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Feb 11, 2012 18:02:51 GMT -5
You apologized for "the wrong thread," not that you didn't think he deserved the illness because of drinking.
I didn't say you were a corporatocrat, just that is what you sound like when you think Randy, or anybody with a serious illness, doesn't deserve to have money spent on them. You also sound like you believe someone with an illness that is their won fault couldn't possibly be a person of worth or have worthwhile thoughts.
I try to see the worth of all people, so that attitude is bothersome to me. People who are sick have enough pain already.
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Feb 11, 2012 18:27:14 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Feb 11, 2012 18:27:14 GMT -5
Here is a link to "The Last Lecture" which I watched today, in honor of Jeffrey and Randy. It was very moving, better have some Kleenex on hand, you were warned! wms.andrew.cmu.edu/001/pausch.wmvAnd here is Jeffrey Zaslow's column, "A Final Farewell," published near the end of Randy's life, reminiscing about what it was like to know and work with him. There is a link to the lecture within the story, assuming you can read the WSJ piece from the link: online.wsj.com/article/SB120951287174854465.html
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Feb 11, 2012 19:59:35 GMT -5
Post by rogesgallery on Feb 11, 2012 19:59:35 GMT -5
Thanks K
You are certainly not the first to scold me for my... serendipitous view of death
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Feb 11, 2012 22:30:37 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Feb 11, 2012 22:30:37 GMT -5
I am not sure what you mean by "serendipitous view of death."
What I would "scold" (more of an observation than scolding IMHO) you for is the callousness of your attitude. Just me, but I believe "no man is an island" and "any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind." I couldn't be as harsh as you, but then no point in being a doctor if one can't care for and about sick people.
Some medical information. Pancreatic cancer is mostly an unexplained event, but risk factors include diet, genetics and smoking. Current evidence does not support a link with alcohol ingestion though there are conflicting data; there is no evidence for causality. Alcohol abuse is associated with liver cancer and some types of pancreatitis.
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Feb 12, 2012 8:42:27 GMT -5
Post by Jane on Feb 12, 2012 8:42:27 GMT -5
Woke to the news that Whitney Houston has died. There is certainly a "self-inflicted" death, but none the sadder for it. What a shame to have beauty, talent and fame and find it not enough.
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Feb 12, 2012 9:23:10 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Feb 12, 2012 9:23:10 GMT -5
Yes, a tragedy. Her voice was amazing and she was beautiful and she was loved by so many.
I'd agree about the "self-inflicted" in quotation marks. Most addicts I have known want to quit and don't want to inflict such pain on their loved ones, but they can't stop. The relapse rate is so very high, and the demons just seem to keep coming back after them.
Though it is easy for some of us to say "It's her own fault, she should just stop using," she leaves sadness and many broken hearts, and the sense or the wish that if she could have quit, she would have.
It's hard. Sadly, impossibly difficult for some.
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Feb 12, 2012 9:51:31 GMT -5
Post by Jane on Feb 12, 2012 9:51:31 GMT -5
I'm just watching Sunday Morning and they are covering her life and death. Yes, she was stunningly beautiful and such a lovely voice. What demons must have pursued her.
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Feb 12, 2012 10:14:58 GMT -5
Post by Jane on Feb 12, 2012 10:14:58 GMT -5
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Feb 12, 2012 10:21:11 GMT -5
Post by rogesgallery on Feb 12, 2012 10:21:11 GMT -5
What Whiitney saw when she looked in the mirror only Whitney could answer. Maybe it was her expectations maybe it was the expectation we force on all winners... and losers. Certainly expectation can be a snowball without control.
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Feb 13, 2012 23:57:38 GMT -5
Post by BoatBabe on Feb 13, 2012 23:57:38 GMT -5
What Whiitney saw when she looked in the mirror only Whitney could answer. Maybe it was her expectations maybe it was the expectation we force on all winners... and losers. Certainly expectation can be a snowball without control. Hmmmmm . . . Good observation, Roges. I just have a hard time signing up for the "We" category.
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Feb 14, 2012 2:40:15 GMT -5
Post by rogesgallery on Feb 14, 2012 2:40:15 GMT -5
If I remember correctly you were a bartender for some time. What if you were tending bar in Ballard one day and Whitney Houston walks in and sits at the bar. Would you say "Hey Whitney what'll ya have?" You serve her and that is it; You never mention it further? What look would be in your eyes when you realized it was her. How would you serve her as opposed to another stranger that wandered in.
Have you ever noted, when you were shopping at Pike street say; or even at home on Ballard Way, that some days people look at you like you are something. Men's heads turn, women smile, children stare; then other days, dressed in the same fashion — your usual posture, it's like you are invisible.
Whitney was never invisible — to anyone. She did a lot of cocaine and cocaine can make you feel like people are watching you when there is no one around for miles(I could tell you a funny story but some might not get it or would associate it out of context ) She liked the drugs but it was a cultural contradiction to her background and image. And it was an escape for a short time.
So, what would Whitney see when she looked in 'Our' eyes? Bobby Brown probably knew but he wasn't sympathetic. Her analyst probably knew but could only analyze it.
When I say WE I mean the combined energy WE emit.
Twice I have flown into Seattle after spending an extended period in a totally foreign environment. The first time I was too young and inexperienced to realize what was happening. The second time I did have the experience to examine it. People exude an energy but it is not taught in schools or by our parent because we have no accepted method to measure it. Grab hold of the antennae of a poorly tuned radio though and you will experience it. Mere Capacitance? Capacitance is the emission of stored energy.
That is WE.
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Feb 16, 2012 22:15:00 GMT -5
Post by BoatBabe on Feb 16, 2012 22:15:00 GMT -5
Good definition of the Royal We, Roges.
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Feb 17, 2012 11:01:31 GMT -5
Post by rogesgallery on Feb 17, 2012 11:01:31 GMT -5
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Mar 1, 2012 21:47:39 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Mar 1, 2012 21:47:39 GMT -5
Davy Jones has died at age 66. Shucks, the Monkees sure created the background to my teenage years.
OTOH, Andrew Breitbart is gone at age 43. Seems young but one can't help but wonder if his anger and incivility didn't contribute in karmic fashion. "No man is an island" and all, but I can't say I will miss his nastiness.
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Mar 2, 2012 9:27:47 GMT -5
Post by BoatBabe on Mar 2, 2012 9:27:47 GMT -5
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Mar 2, 2012 14:17:07 GMT -5
Post by joew on Mar 2, 2012 14:17:07 GMT -5
The song is catchy, and I like the clowning around at the end. RIP, Davy.
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Mar 3, 2012 14:50:14 GMT -5
Post by BoatBabe on Mar 3, 2012 14:50:14 GMT -5
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Mar 3, 2012 14:56:47 GMT -5
Post by BoatBabe on Mar 3, 2012 14:56:47 GMT -5
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Mar 3, 2012 18:59:21 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Mar 3, 2012 18:59:21 GMT -5
Huh? People die of natural causes at ages 43 and younger every day. I am very lucky to be alive after events when I was 37. Oh-s0-natural pregnancy can indeed be very life-threatening. Rush Limbaugh notwithstanding.
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Mar 3, 2012 19:04:33 GMT -5
Post by doctork on Mar 3, 2012 19:04:33 GMT -5
Ooohh, I need ketchup!
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Mar 5, 2012 1:08:02 GMT -5
Post by joew on Mar 5, 2012 1:08:02 GMT -5
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May 21, 2012 9:19:11 GMT -5
Post by doctork on May 21, 2012 9:19:11 GMT -5
So many memories of the BeeGee's, and Robin's voice throughout my life. Gotta Get A Message To You and others in high school. Saturday Night Fever tunes in medical school.
In fact my med school senior year follies just before graduation was "Saturday Night FUO" - a pun based on the medical term for "Fever of Unknown Origin."
Robin was still active and performing until very recently - did a benefit for British soldiers earlier this year. We'll miss him.
The Lockerbie Bomber also died yesterday, about 3 years after he was released from prison to return home for compassionate reasons on grounds that he was terminally ill.
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May 21, 2012 20:59:13 GMT -5
Post by liriodendron on May 21, 2012 20:59:13 GMT -5
Why, exactly, are we being compassionate towards someone responsible for so many deaths?
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May 21, 2012 22:57:51 GMT -5
Post by doctork on May 21, 2012 22:57:51 GMT -5
Why, exactly, are we being compassionate towards someone responsible for so many deaths? Many have asked that very question! However, I believe it was a decision by Scottish authorities, not anything the US agreed to. BTW, "terminally ill" implies death is expected within the next 6 months. Not three years...
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May 21, 2012 23:04:56 GMT -5
Post by joew on May 21, 2012 23:04:56 GMT -5
Why, exactly, are we being compassionate towards someone responsible for so many deaths? Because we're compassionate.
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May 21, 2012 23:22:18 GMT -5
Post by BoatBabe on May 21, 2012 23:22:18 GMT -5
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May 30, 2012 5:28:36 GMT -5
Post by jspnrvr on May 30, 2012 5:28:36 GMT -5
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May 30, 2012 9:20:49 GMT -5
Post by BoatBabe on May 30, 2012 9:20:49 GMT -5
Yup, I didn't feel good about that either, Jay.
God Speed, Doc Watson.
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